Don Felder: This Eagle has landed

Don Felder is on tour this summer with Styx and Foreigner on the "Soundtrack of Summer" tour.

I suppose one could talk with former Eagles guitarist Don Felder and not bring up his role in creating one of the most iconic songs in rock history. But why would you want to miss out on that?

"Hotel California" holds a special place in my own personal memory as it was the very first song that I ever saw the Eagles perform live. I was a relatively new Eagles fan when I saw them on Oct. 22, 1976, as part of a three-night stand at the Forum in Los Angeles. So when I heard the cool opening song -- I could tell from the chorus, and a neon sign blinking behind the stage, that it was called "Hotel California" -- I simply assumed it was an album cut I was unfamiliar with. It wasn't until a month and a half later, when the "Hotel California" album was officially released, that I recognized my error.

What was not in error during my first introduction to that song, however, was the impression that it was indeed something special. It remains a classic concert-opening song to this day. As Felder said during our interview, " It’s like walking out on stage and just punching somebody right in the chin. 'Boooom!' You know?"

Felder is no longer in the Eagles, of course, following a well-publicized acrimonious split in 2001. But the guitarist is fronting his own band now and touring behind his 2012 solo album "Road to Forever."

This summer Felder is playing the opening slot on the "Soundtrack of Summer" tour with Styx and Foreigner, which comes to USANA Amphitheatre on Wednesday. For this tour, "Hotel California" is getting some extra love and attention -- as Felder is joined by Styx guitarist Tommy Shaw in a rousing set-closing rendition of the classic tune.

This interview took place in March, before the start of the tour. After a few minutes of chit-chat -- in which Felder mentioned how he was blessed with the "gift of gab," an assessment which definitely proved true in the course of our discussion -- we got down to business.

DOUG FOX: I’ve got to say, it’s an honor to talk to the guitarist who wrote one of the greatest concert-opening songs of all time. And who knew that “Mexican Bolero” would become such a hit?

DON FELDER: (laughs) Certainly not me!

FOX: The first time that I saw the Eagles, I was living in L.A. at the time in October of ‘76, and it was only my third concert ever, and of course you came out and opened with “Hotel California” -- looking back, I think one of the things I find most interesting about that is that was before the album came out, before the song was released, and nobody had heard that, but just the fact that you played it at that point, and especially since you opened the show with it and it went over so well, to me looking back at it now, I’m like, “Man, that showed a tremendous amount of confidence in that song." Did you guys know what you had when you first wrote it?

FELDER: You know, I don’t think any artist ever really knows. I mean, you can write a song, you can record it in the studio, you can put it out, distribute it, promote it -- you just don’t know what’s going to resonate with audiences until you see the results of your work. I think my studio wall is covered with ideas that I’ve splattered up to see what’s going to stick to the wall, you know? And to me, I think I wrote 16 or 17 song ideas for what was going to become the “Hotel California” record, and one of them became “Victim of Love” and another one became “Hotel California.” And at the time it was just on the cassette of, like, 16 or 17 other song ideas. Don (Henley) heard it and said, “I like that thing that sounds kind of like a Mexican reggae or bolero, you know. That was the only thing that was on that reel that sounded like that. Imagine the difference between hearing the track to “Hotel California” and the track to “Victim of Love,” it’s opposite ends of the spectrum really. So we started working on the lyrics, and he and Glenn kind of ran off into their own world. Mostly I think Don came up with a large part of those lyrics, he’s a brilliant lyricist and an English-lit major and has the way of writing lyrics as little flashcards, or postcards, that show you a little picture, and another little picture and another little picture until you finally hit the chorus and you go, “Oh, I see what the story’s about!” And he’s just a genius lyricist, in my opinion. So he came in with the lyrics pretty much finished, with a few corrections here and there they made as were going through it. When we finished recording it in the studio, the record company had been pounding on our door to get this record -- they wanted to put it out and follow up “One of These Nights,” which was the biggest success that the Eagles had had to that time for an album. And so, finally, when we finished it, we had it all mixed and sequenced on two-track, we invited them over, played the record for them and after “Hotel California,” Henley stopped, turned around and said, “That’s going to be our single.” And I don’t know if you know, I don’t know how old you are, but the format for AM radio in the ‘70s, was that it had to be 3 minutes and 30 seconds long or less. You had to either have it be a rock song, a dance song or a drippy ballad. The introduction had to be under 30 seconds so the disc jockey didn’t have to talk so long before the singing started. And “Hotel California” was exactly wrong on all formats. It was six and a half minutes long, the introduction was a minute, you couldn’t dance to it, it stops in the middle, it breaks down with no drums and it’s got this two-minute guitar solo on the end of it. It’s completely wrong for AM radio. So when Don said, “That’s going to be our next single,” I said, “You know, I think that’s wrong. That’s like an FM track, I don’t think that should be on AM radio. I think that’s not the right call.” And he said, “Nope, that’s what we’re going to do.” And I went, “OK, but I told you so.” And I’ve never been so happy to have been so wrong in my life. He was right. He heard something in that that he believed in, so good for him.

FOX: That’s another thing that made it interesting for me because you were playing it in shows before it was ever released on radio. Like you said, you never really know how something will be received by the public until you put it out there. So when you started playing it in the shows, that was essentially your first reactions to the songs publicly.

FELDER: It was. It truly was. Yeah, we had actually, I think ... was that the “Hotel California” show at the Forum?

FOX: Yes, there were three of them.

FELDER: Yeah. We had done that that whole tour. In fact, some of the video that was in “The History of the Eagles” was shot on the road ...

FOX: In Washington?

FELDER: Washington or Philadelphia or somewhere back East.

FOX: I think it was Washington.

FELDER: Yeah, thank you. And we had made that into a video that was pre-MTV and sent it to Japan, and sent it to Europe and Australia so they could run that on television as kind of a commercial for the record, so it could sponsor and promote record sales because we weren’t going to get there for like a year, year and a half by the time we toured the United States and Canada, finally you go to Europe and finally you go to Japan and finally you go to Australia, you know, we wanted them to be able to kind of see what it was. So that’s where that footage came from. So, you know, we were kind of on board with that song once we started doing it live and seeing how well people responded to it. It was really a good opener. It’s like walking out on stage and just punching somebody right in the chin. “Boooom!” You know?

FOX: Exactly! As somebody who has gone to a ton of concerts, I’m a big fan of how bands open their shows. It’s really an art, and it's got to be an art to come up with a song that fits that moment so perfectly.

FELDER: Well, I don’t know that it was ever written with the intent that it be an opening song in the show. Usually people save their biggest hits for the last song in the set or an encore or something later. But we just said, “We broke the rules on AM radio, let’s break the rules for this song, let’s just go out and do it first.” Even now, when I go out and do my live show, I usually start with “Hotel California.” Everybody gets up and stands up and applauds it, and it just gets a really great reaction. As a matter of fact, I think one of the nicest things that really struck me, I did this show a couple years ago for the United Nations in New York. There were about 450 people there, either presidents or dignitaries, secretaries of state from all over the world at this show -- and about half of them didn’t even speak English. I went out and did “Hotel California” and got a standing ovation for that song from literally representatives from the whole world, and it kind of dawned on me the global impact that song has had. You know, you go, “OK, write this song, we make a record, we put it out, we go on tour” and you hear people say, “Oh, I was down in Mexico at this bar and I heard them playing ‘Hotel California’ ” -- but until that moment I didn’t really realize how widespread that song had become. And, you know, it was a really pleasant surprise.

FOX: Well, I’ve got to ask, do you still have that cassette, the original copy?

FELDER: I do. As a matter of fact, I transferred it to digital about six, seven months ago. I was digging back through a bunch of my old cassettes, 'cause like I said, I’d written all these tracks ... like the song “Heavy Metal” was actually a song I wrote for “The Long Run” record that never got finished. And so when I got invited to look at the movie of “Heavy Metal,” I went, “Oh, I’ve got this great guitar track, it all these harmony guitars on it and stuff, and I said, “I bet if I just re-wrote the lyrics for “Heavy Metal” on top of this track, it would work. I went in the studio, re-recorded the whole thing, and put it out, and it was, like, one of those kind of appropriate tracks that goes with the video and it did really well. So I was just looking back through and listening to a bunch of my cassettes before they completely degenerate, and at the same time I was transferring them into Pro-Tools in a digital format, but there it was. It was the original demo for “Hotel California,” and it was remarkably similar to the final end product.

FOX: That’s amazing.

FELDER: Yeah.

FOX: Now how did your involvement with Styx and Foreigner come about for the "Soundtrack of Summer" tour?

FELDER: You know, I had worked with Styx, I guess one of the first times was an Alice Cooper benefit in Phoenix. Every year he had a thing thing called Christmas Pudding where he raises money for this foundation where they built an after-school educational program to keep kids off the streets and they teach them music and dance and help with their homework, all that stuff. Alice is an amazing guy when it comes to that kind of work. So every year he has this fundraiser and I got invited over to sit in and play a couple of songs at the Dodge Theater there in Phoenix, I guess it’s like a 5,000-seat hall or something. Styx was on the bill, and I said “Well, I don’t have a band.” Alice said, “I bet these guys would work with you.” So I sat down with (Styx guitarist) Tommy (Shaw) and showed him the harmony on “Hotel California,” and we did a quick soundcheck rehearsal, and that night we did like, “Life in the Fast Lane,” “Hotel California,” two or three songs with Styx backing me up -- which was just unbelievable. It was like, “You know, you guys are really good! If you ever need a gig let me know.” (laughs) And Tommy and I became fast friends after that. I put together a benefit show here in L.A. for the Soweto Center for the Performing Arts, which was for the victims of Katrina. I guess that was about eight or nine years ago. I called Tommy who was doing the Shaw/Blades thing, had those guys come, Alice came over and sang with his band. Gilby Clarke was on the show. Dennis Quaid and his band were on the show. David Foster and some of his people were on the show. Just put together a really great show of different rock and roll bands, and raised a bunch of money for the victims of Katrina, and then, “Hey, Tommy, that was kind of fun, let’s go grab a dinner.” And the next thing I know, when he’s in town we’re going out and doing stuff, and seeing them play and going to dinner. And then when I was writing for the “Road to Forever,” I had two songs that I'd written lyrics for that were OK, I just wasn’t really knocked out by the lyrics that I’d written, and so I called Tommy just on the wild chance that he may be off the road with Styx, because they do like 150 shows a year, they’re just nonstop, and he just happened to be in town. I said, “Hey, would you just come over and listen to these lyrics that I’ve written and give me your opinion, just kind of put a different ear on it.” He said, “Oh, those are great, that’s fine.” I said, “What would you do with some of these lyrics?” So he and I sat down and we started re-writing some of the lyrics and we set up a mike and sang the choruses for them. It sounded great, and the next thing I know those lyrics are going on the record and Tommy’s vocals are going on the record. You know, we actually wrote, in three days, we wrote three songs. We wrote another song, “Heal Me,” together, and we wrote “Wash Away” and the third song, which sounded remarkably like Crosby, Stills and Nash -- and Tommy was writing it for “The Great Divide” and it was too kind of Southern California instead of country for his record, he wanted more honest country-bluegrass stuff on his record. Anyway, I may use that with his blessing on my next record. It’s a great song, and maybe I’ll get Crosby, Stills and Nash to sing it with me, so we’ll see.

FOX: So do you have plans for a new record right away?

FELDER: I am constantly in the process when I’m driving down the freeway in L.A. singing into my iPhone or sitting on an airplane flying somewhere writing lyrics with headphones on listening to a track with this great lyric program, a songwriter’s program called MasterWriter, where you can put a track, an mp3, into this program, you can play it and write lyrics on top of it, back it up, you know, it’s kind of all controlled from one little thing. It’s created by a guy named Barry DeVorzon, up in Santa Barbara, who’s a great string composer and songwriter himself -- and he wanted to be able to get audio and text and rhyming dictionaries into one program, so it’s a blessing really for a songwriter to be able to have that program. There’s Gary DeVorzon’s ad. (laughs) Anyway, I’m constantly working, whether it’s on the road, even if I’m watching television, I’ll sit with an electric guitar and just kind of tinker around as I’m watching it. But if I hear a score in the background, if I hear something going on in the background, whether it’s an orchestral part, I’ll rewind it on my DVR and I’ll sit and try to figure it out and work it out. So, I’m constantly working, I have all these odds and ends in bits and pieces of lyrics and guitar licks and tracks and stuff. In August I plan on trying to take a couple of weeks and sit down with that task, sort through them and start building the demos for these song ideas. Last record, “Road to Forever,” I had 27 song ideas pretty much finished. I culled it down to 16, went into the studio and recorded those 16 songs, finished them and produced them, and then just before we went to final mastering of the manufacturing the CDs and the artwork, I get a call from the management company and they say, “Well, iTunes wants an exclusive single. Oh, and Amazon needs an exclusive song, and, oh wait, Japan wants an exclusive song, and Europe and Australia want an exclusive song, too.” So I had to pull four songs off the original release of “Road to Forever” and only put out 12 songs. And so I said, “Here’s four great songs that no one ever heard.” So this spring I decided that we should repackage that, put all the songs back on that are no longer exclusive songs and then release it again. So we re-released that, and that was the reasoning in doing that. And the lesson I’ve learned from that is instead of doing 16, I need to record 20 or 25 songs for all these exclusive, promotional things as well. I think you want to have at least 16 songs on a CD, you know?

FOX: That’s something you never had to worry about back in the old days.

FELDER: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I think my first solo record had eight songs on it. Yeah, if they’d have pulled four off for exclusive promotions, there’d only be four songs on it.

FOX: You’d have an EP.

FELDER: (laughs)

FOX: So, I’ve been wearing out your new album for the past week and a half, and it is the extended version so I have all those songs on there ...

FELDER: Oh, good.

FOX: And I’ve got to say, and maybe you’ll shake your head at this a bit, but I don’t know what I expected going in, but I was amazed at how much it reminded me of the Eagles. I think because a few members of your former band are so prominently recognized, you know, as the main songwriters and get the credit for that, but as I was listening to this, it kind of became clear to me that your “Fingers” print was all over those main Eagles records, even if it’s not credited in the songwriting per se.

FELDER: Well, you know, typically songwriting credits go lyrics and music. And that’s typically the way I worked with those guys in the past. I would write music beds. I would write complete introductions, a couple verses, chorus, bridge, you know, the song structure -- give them these music beds to write and in some instances, like “Victim of Love,” actually the melody. I had different lyrics on it, but I had written the melody, you can even hear the melody in the guitar introduction that’s on the track, right? And those two guys were primarily known for lyrics and vocals. Don Henley can’t really play piano, can’t really play guitar, he needs somebody to provide him the music bed. (former Eagles guitarist) Bernie (Leadon) told me that as soon as I joined the band. He said, “You want to write with these guys, provide the music beds to sing on top of.” That’s how “Witchy Woman” happened, that was a Bernie Leadon track, and Henley liked it and wrote the lyrics on it and sang it. So I went, “OK, that’s my job. I’ll just keep feeding music beds to these guys.” Although I had my own melodies and lyrics, I withheld those until I was asked, “You have a melody for this?” And I’d sing 'em or show 'em the melody. And I think the songs I didn’t actually write the musical changes for, I didn’t get writers credit, but you’re right, there’s a heavy footprint, a ‘Fingers’ print as you called it, on a lot of those records that were partially my sound and my guitar arrangement -- that sort of stamp or signature stuff that was really so obviously missing from their last record that was put out. It changed, pretty much entirely, the sound of that band -- except for the lead vocals. I mean, you still recognize Don Henley’s voice. He’s got an incredible vocal in my opinion. He’s got probably one of the best rock and roll voices alive today. And very recognizable harmonies and that sort of stuff. But, you know, it shifted into something else, which is fine with me. Many people have told me that about ‘Road to Forever,’ that it sounds like an Eagles record, and I did not go out intending to make a record that sounded like an Eagles record -- it’s just what I sound like. (laughs)

FOX: Yeah, that was the point I was trying to get to. (laughs) And it’s my bad for maybe not realizing that before, but hearing this work for the first time, that’s the overwhelming thought I got was, “Oh, yeah, this makes sense.”

FELDER: Well, yeah, I mean Joe has got such a unique fingerprint, sound and style and way of playing and writing, you recognize Joe Walsh solo stuff more so than you recognize Joe Walsh in the Eagles stuff. You know what I mean? “Life in the Fast Lane” is probably the most successful Joe Walsh kind of Eagles song that he had a big footprint in. Other than that, you don’t hear a lot of Joe Walsh sound in the Eagles, you know what I mean?

FOX: Yeah.

FELDER: Sadly. To me I think it’s their loss ’cause Joe is such a talented guitarist and can do so much with their records, but for some reason he doesn’t.

FOX: So many songs on “Road to Forever” seem personal in nature, how cathartic was it to work through all that writing and get the whole project done?

FELDER: Well, a lot of the ideas and original concepts for those songs came out of the period that I was writing my autobiography -- when I was going back and reflecting on my entire life and experiences. Breaking up and divorcing from my wife of 29 years, and falling in love with her in the first place and breaking up and going through the trauma with the Eagles, just all of my life experiences. As a matter of fact, I think as an artist, most good art comes from real-life experiences that are reflected either in film, music, songwriting, art, painting, sculpture -- some way that people, other humans that have shared that same experience can see, recognize and resonate with. To me, that’s what an artist’s task is, to share those thoughts and insights in life and life’s experiences. So when I was writing this book -- I’m not a great writer, you know, I can write text and lay it out pretty well, I’m fairly literate that way, but emotionally it was a better release for me to go into the studio and write music. It’s just what I do. So I take all of those ideas and feelings and thoughts and express them in the initial songwriting and try to capture those feelings that I was dealing with and going through and recalling. So then you’ve got to make the decision, well, how personal of a record, how personal of a book do you want to publish. And for me, I’ve got nothing to hide. I’ve been who I am and experienced what I have in this world, and it should be for anyone that cares to take a look at it or hear it or read it or what not. I don’t pull any punches. I just lay it out there as I see it, and as I felt it. I think there’s a certain amount of bravery for an artist to do that, but, you know, if you’re timid and shy, you’re in the wrong business. (laughs) It’s not for the weak of heart or the faint of heart. I just laid it all out there, both in my book and in songwriting. It’s what I do now. I have no fear when it comes to being judged or ridiculed for something I’ve experienced. How can you fear that -- because it’s the truth of what happened?

FOX: Concerts, of course, are great anytime ... but do you find there’s a different vibe or a little different energy to be playing outside in the summertime as opposed to an indoor show at a different time of year?

FELDER: Well, to preface this answer, I’ve done a lot of outdoor summer festivals over the last 10 years. It’s not like my first rodeo whether it’s with the Eagles or with my solo band myself. I think there’s a difference in the scale or magnitude of the setting. Personally, I think those outdoor venues are great if you want to go and just have a party. If you want to go and sit and listen to stuff in a more acoustically tuned, higher-controlled environment, you need to be indoors. Indoors doesn’t mean in a hockey rink. It doesn’t mean a place that is primarily set up for sports or basketball or something. Most of those buildings don’t sound good. Some of them have addressed those issues lately, but they build them so they’re loud and stuff for the fans so they get a lot of energy and noise during the game, but it’s the wrong environment for music. So I think it depends on what you want to do. I love the outdoor festivals because they’re always like a big party. Everybody’s dancing, rocking and having a great time and just having fun. I like the indoor venues as well because everybody’s more comfortable, there’s usually seats -- and a lawn if you’re doing a shed or something like that -- and the acoustics are usually much better because the facility has been designed for audio live performances (rather) than a hockey rink or something like that. So I think they both have their pros and cons. If you want to see an act in an intimate setting then you should go to an indoor venue. If you want to go and rock ’n’ roll and have fun and be outside, then you should go to an outdoor festival.

FOX: I know we’re running out of time, but just one more question. So, in summary, what was it like, as you look back, being in one of the greatest bands ever? I’m just wondering, did you ever really enjoy it or were you kind of always looking over your shoulder?

FELDER: From the day I started playing music when I was 10, till today, I’ve loved playing music. Absolutely, it’s the most fulfilling, rewarding thing in my life. I’ve put up with starving on the streets of New York, literally not able to have more than 60 cents in my pockets to get on the train to go down and get a plate of yellow rice and black beans to fill my belly for a couple of days so that I could continue playing. I wound up moving from Boston to California in a beat-up old Volvo car with a U-Haul trailer on the back and I managed to save $600 working in the studios, playing music on the holidays and during dinner hour, and then playing in a live cover band at night until 2 in the morning and back in the studio at 9 o’clock, to get the money together to move out here. It’s not about the success, it’s about how much you love what you do. And I think whatever the conditions I would have to put up with, whether it’s the difficult times in a huge band or difficult times in a small band, starving, or driving across country with the whole world ahead  of me, you know, kind of on that wing-and-a-prayer kind of lifestyle -- it’s all done because I love playing music. And to this day, I still feel that way. I’ll put up with the best and the worst to be able to do it. Does that answer your question?

FOX: Perfectly! Thank you so much for your time.

FELDER: All right, Doug. Take care.

To read the newspaper story that came from this interview, which includes quotes by Tommy Shaw regarding the thrill of playing "Hotel California" with Felder every night on the "Soundtrack of Summer" tour, click HERE.

Styx's Lawrence Gowan: This Interview's Got No Title (Just Words and a Tune)

Master of his domain: Lawrence Gowan, he of the spinning keyboard, performs in 2012. (Daily Herald photo)

Peyton and Eli Manning may have bragged about having football on their phone in a popular DIRECTV commercial, but I recently enjoyed a "Lawrence Gowan does 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' solo concert" on my phone.

This spur-of-the-moment, one-off performance, as it were, stemmed from a discussion the Styx keyboardist/vocalist and I had engaged in last fall, leading up to the 40th anniversary of the original release of that seminal Elton John album. I had reached out to Gowan in the hopes of enlisting his participation in a little exercise I was undertaking that would rank the 17 individual songs on the double album from top to bottom.

While time commitments kept him from supplying his own full rankings, he did quickly fire off his top three choices ("Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding," "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" and "Harmony," in that order, for those scoring at home) and offer some of his own personal views on the album -- which, coincidentally, just so happened to play a big impact on his musical destiny, steering him away from guitar and toward an ever-revolving career in keyboards. It was obvious from the depth and breadth of his immediate analysis that the album was indeed one with which he held a special connection. (Incidentally, you can take the "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" ranking challenge HERE.)

So it was that when we began our current interview, coinciding with a pair of local Styx shows on Feb. 8 in Wendover and tonight in Richfield, Gowan playfully jumped into a couple songs from the album with the traveling keyboard in his hotel room from Spokane, Wash. It wasn't exactly "In Kilt Tonight," but it was indeed a rare treat.

The interview started with him tinkling the ivories to the title track and closed with some strains from "Bennie and the Jets." In between, we touched on several subjects that I hope swerve far away from the same tired handful of questions that always seem to dog the man who took over for Styx co-founder Dennis DeYoung.

Well, see for yourself ...

LAWRENCE GOWAN: Well, how've you been?

DOUG FOX: Good, it's great to talk with you again.

GOWAN: Well, you too, Doug.

DF: Where are you calling from today?

GOWAN: I’m in Spokane, Washington. Not far from you. I have a quick little song I want to play you before we go any further. You ready? (The somewhat muffled keyboard strains of “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road” come through the phone.) "When are you gonna come down, when are you going to land?" (laughs). Did you hear that? 

DF: I could! But can you do the intro to "Love Lies Bleeding"?

GOWAN: OK, let’s turn it up a little bit here and see if you can hear this. (Plays near the beginning of "Love Lies Bleeding.) "The roses in the window box are tilted to one side. Everything about this house was born to grow and die." ... I haven’t played it in a while ... "A year ago to this very day ... if I don't change the pace, I can't face another day. And love lies bleeding in my hands. It kills me to think of you with another man. I was playing rock 'n' roll and you were just a fan, but my guitar couldn't hold you so I split the band. Love lies bleeding in my hands." ... That actually comes back pretty quick! 

DF: I was going to say, is that all spur of the moment -- I bet you haven’t done that for a long time?
 

GOWAN: Well, there were a couple of (screwed) up chords but ... That was a very ... I wanted to talk to you in depth about it, but I had so many interviews last year, Doug. I’ve been doing so many of them now. 

DF: I’ve noticed that, yeah.

GOWAN: I’ve been doing a lot of them, so I just didn’t have time to really give that ("Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" ranking) the proper attention that it deserves because that was, as I said to you before, that was a pivotal record for me. For me, it was “Close to the Edge” and “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road” that made me really decide to put the guitar aside, to put the guitar down and say, “OK, I want to be a piano player.” It was really those two records. And actually a couple of The Guess Who records as well. But those culminated in me saying, “No, I really want to be a piano player.” That and the fact that the band I was in in high school, I was in a couple bands, but the one that I played piano in got booked a lot more. (laughs) The universe tries to tell you something! 

DF: When I first asked you about that, and you jumped in with the analysis you did right off the bat, I’m like, “OK,” like you said, “this is obviously a pivotal album for you, too.” What was so fun for me was to actually sit down and try and rank them, because so many songs — it’s like, if you asked me to pick my next five favorite songs, you know, you can kind of do that, but when you’re trying to pick between one or two that were right close to each other, it was almost impossible. But it was fun. So I figured you’d have fun doing that.

GOWAN: Yeah, absolutely. It was fantastic. I listened to it over and over. Songs that weren’t the singles like “Danny Bailey” or “Social Disease” or “Harmony” for sure ... 

DF: Or  “Grey Seal” ...

GOWAN: “Grey Seal” — oh. I do remember that. 

DF: That’s got a great keyboard opening.

GOWAN: Oh, let me see ... now you’ve got me (starts playing the keyboard opening to "Grey Seal" flawlessly) ... I remember this because it’s in D ... (sings) "Why’s it never light on my lawn." (He plays it three times as if trying to remember the next part.) 

DF: "Why does it rain and never say good day to the newborn?"

GOWAN: Yeah, fantastic! You know something? I think about a month ago, I heard a band doing a cover of that -- but they left out, they didn’t use the chorus at all. They didn’t do, “Tell me Grey Seal, how does it feel to be so wise.” They just did the verses. And I don’t know what band it was. It was in the airport, and I heard it on the speakers, and I was like, “That’s not Elton.” All of a sudden I was like, “Where’s the chorus?” But anyway ... 

DF: It’s amazing to me that you could just launch right into that and play it perfectly.

GOWAN: It’s seminal in my formation of playing. Those two albums, it was Elton and (Rick) Wakeman at that time that suddenly changed my mind, and then later Keith Emerson and Tony Banks, and even last night I was listening to some Robert Lamm, that choppy way of playing the piano I thought was really cool. Maybe one day in the future we’ll get into that. In fact, I just remembered, in December there was a guy in Toronto, I did a charity show with Saga, and there was a guy there who I’ve known for years, who asked if I would consider doing a concert of just “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road,” play it with a band, yeah. I had to dismiss it, because I would love to, but I’ve got about 130 Styx shows I’ve got to do in 2014, but maybe we’ll talk about it in another year or so. 

DF: That would be a great idea.

GOWAN: Yeah, now that I think about it, that could be kind of a cool thing. I don’t see Elton himself doing that, although he should. But the songs are very high, they’re very vocally challenging, you know? Other than Candle in the Wind, it’s in the top of his register, with "Sister Can’t Twist" ... Anyway, we’re going down this hole for three hours if we get started. (laughs) 

DF: One more question, because as you were singing "Love Lies Bleeding" I was reminded of this, and I wonder if you’ve noticed. This is something, I’ve never interviewed Elton, but if I ever did, this is one thing I would ask him, is, originally that lyric is “I can’t face another day,” but somewhere along the way he’s changed it to, “I can’t last another day.” And that’s how he’s done it ever since “Here and There,” you know the live album? And I’ve always wanted to know, “What made you change that? Because I’ve always loved 'face' and I wonder why you changed it to 'last’?”

GOWAN: Probably either he’s forgotten and nobody has the guts to tell him, which I would put my money on that, but you never know why a guy would do something like that. 

DF: It’s just one of those curiosities I have.

GOWAN: I know. It’s because fans like us, we know the minutia of it because it’s possibly even more meaningful to us than it is to him, 

DF: Right.

GOWAN: So that’s the dilemma. 

DF: Well, like you said, I could discuss this for hours, that would be a blast. ... I’ve just been sitting here now, for some strange reason, running “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road” songs through my head.

GOWAN: Ah, that’s a good one.
  

Lawrence Gowan on "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" tour in 2010. (Courtesy photo)

DF: And I was sitting here thinking, “This is what I love about my job” — not only do I now have you singing “Yellow Brick Road” on tape, but previously I have Jack Blades singing “Madman Across the Water” songs on tape, because we were discussing that album because it was a favorite of both him and Tommy (Shaw).

GOWAN: Yeah, Madman’s a great album. Yeah. Great song. 

DF: And I’ve noticed that you’ve been getting “Tiny Dancer” into your (in-concert) song lyric test recently.

GOWAN: I have. Actually last night I played, what was it last night, it was “Rocket Man.” I try to revolve it a little bit. You kind of have to go with the most widely spread songs that people know the choruses of when I’m doing the College of Rock Knowledge. 

DF: Because if you ever did, “The roses in the window box are tilted to one side,” there’d at least be some of us that would jump in on that.

GOWAN: There would definitely be some of you, and some of you may be scratching at your head. I think it all just comes down to how much it’s made it into the popular culture, you know?. I mean, that album of course at the time was, almost everyone knows, it’s “Bennie and the Jets,” and “Candle in the Wind” from that album, and I play “Saturday Night’s (Alright for Fightin’)” -- usually on a Saturday. So now that you’ve said that -- I’d better put that in tonight.
 

DF: And Saturday is when you’ll be in Wendover.

GOWAN: Oh, Wendover’s a Saturday night? I’d better remember that next week.  

DF: OK, well let’s jump in here. So, I’m not sure if you’ll be able to contain your excitement, but you’ve got two Utah shows coming up in the next 10 days ...
 

GOWAN: I love coming to Utah. I love Salt Lake City. It’s one of the most beautiful places, both on the ground and from the air. I love when we fly in there, especially around Salt Lake City. It just looks like another planet, Salt Lake itself and that surrounding area. I don’t recall anywhere else on Earth I’ve ever seen that is like it. 

DF: You’ve played Wendover quite a few times already, but then two days later you’re playing in a town called Richfield, about two hours south of us. So when you play smaller towns like that, what do you do during the day? I know you like to get out and circulate among the people, but do you get recognized often? What do you like to do, how do you work that?

GOWAN: Particularly if it’s a town we haven’t played before or haven’t played in the last 12 or 15 years. No, I like to be out and walk as much of the town as I can and just absorb something about my surroundings before the show. The show always goes better if I’ve done that during the day. It’s not possible all days on the road because obviously some nights we arrive just a couple hours before showtime, but if the opportunity is there, that is something I always try to take advantage of, and I think it really helps me — remember I’m the one foreign guy in this band, and America is still an exotic place to me! (laughs) So I like picking up on some local colloquialism or something like that. It just makes me feel like I’ve connected to the place in a weird way. To me, it’s as simple as going to a coffee show and just hearing a couple of local people talk, it just gives me a better feeling about the whole day.  

DF: So let’s discuss some relatively current news. It was just recently announced that you will be heavily participating in the new Carnival Live Concert Series.

GOWAN: I just heard that myself. 

DF: In fact, I think you’ll be doing the very first show. Is this the next wave of concert experiences for you guys?

GOWAN: And you definitely mean that when you say “wave” right? 

DF: Yeah, that was on purpose. (laughs)

GOWAN: I know that Foxy mind of yours. (laughs) Yeah, it’s funny, we did that about five years ago, because I think our stipulation was that we would play the concert when the ship is docked. And that worked out great because the venue on board was exactly capable, it was as if you were in any theater anywhere in the world, because it was that large and sounded great, and the staff was tremendous. But I think that’s the way we’re approaching it is that we’re doing it when the ship is in harbor and so we come onboard for a day and basically do it exactly as if we were doing a gig. For people who are traveling, who are on that ship, I think that’s a pretty great thing to be able to see Styx or Yes or Kiss, or some great band. But as far as staying on the ship, I don’t think that’s part of it for us anyway. 

DF: From what I’ve read, I believe you’re correct on that. But there are some, I think you do back-to-back shows, there’s one in Los Angeles it seems like, you have shows on back-to-back days but on two different ships. Like one ship may be just leaving, and one ship may be getting back in, I don’t know the particulars but it seemed kind of that way.

GOWAN: It’s better for the bands, and it’s great for the audience obviously. They come into port and get to see one of their favorite bands. 

DF: So, what’s the latest on “Dr. Starlight”?

GOWAN: The latest is I hesitate to talk too much about it, because it’s a solo thing I’m working on. And it has a history because before I’d made any records, it was the most popular, and in some cases the most controversial, thing that I ever put on stage with my first band, and it was in the era when Styx was on top of the world, and I was really just starting and trying to do something very in that progressive rock school. So it’s been an ongoing thing between Styx-intensive tours, that’s what I’ve been working on. It’s definitely been a fun thing. I’ve got great players on it. I’ve got back with Jerry Marotta and Tony Levin, and we spent some time in Woodstock, New York, recording, and the majority of it’s being done in Toronto, and it really is fantastic. We’ve got some great art work and all kinds of good things. I’m very proud of it, and one day I hope that Doug Fox holds a copy of it in his hand. 

DF: Well, I hope so. I’ve been a fan of the Dr. Starlight and Watchmaker Facebook pages.

GOWAN: Yeah I brought those up basically for any old Rhinegold fans that remember it. It’s because my inner space geek needs a place to express himself, you know? So anytime someone sends me something particularly directed at space or any old pictures of Rhinegold performing that little rock opera, yeah, it was a way to kind of put a few people on, on that level and just tell them that this is what I’m hacking away at when I’m off the road from Styx. 

DF: I just wanted you to know that I hadn’t forgotten about it and was curious how it was coming along.

GOWAN: That’s fantastic. You know, you’re one of the first people that ever asked me about it about three or four years ago, and it kind of stunned me. 

DF: That was fun.

GOWAN: It stuns me because, yeah, Todd (Sucherman) knew about it, and Todd actually plays on it as well. It’s coming along really well, and one day I hope you get a chance to review it. And when you do, please be kind. (laughs) 

DF: Well, I look forward to it. Hey, are we ever going to get to hear “Criminal Mind” again in the Lower 48?

GOWAN: I certainly hope so. We played it quite a lot last year because we played a good number of shows in Canada, and people, in Canada anyway, have really embraced the Styx version of the song. It happens quite often that when I’m shaking people’s hands at the end of the night, they yell out, “You should play ‘A Criminal Mind.’ ” You know, the only problem with that is that there are these monster Styx songs that are waiting in the wings to be played and, quite frankly, as much as I love ‘A Criminal Mind,’ I also love when we play “One With Everything,” you know? That was a group-writing adventure that I think has really stayed with a good number of the newer followers of the band. So I love it just as much when we play that song, maybe even more. But I do hope we play “A Criminal Mind” again somewhere here and that people take note that it was a song and a hit long before it was a TV show. (laughs) 

DF: I know you were thrilled when one of the first things that happened when you joined the band was that they wanted to play “Criminal Mind.” What was that process like for you — taking one of your solo songs and giving it the Styx treatment, with the rocked-up guitars and also, I thought Todd’s drumming was stellar on that? 

GOWAN: Well, speaking of Todd, he plays that song two ways — he plays it the Styx way and at my solo shows he’s played it the Jerry Marotta way. And that’s the version most people are familiar with in Canada. One thing I learned early on playing with Styx is that everyone is going to carve out their own part to it anyway. So I was surprised even at first when Tommy brought out the mandolin, and then J.Y. wanted to do that key change in the middle for the guitar solo, transitioning from G minor down to E minor. So great things happen if you kind of sit back and let everybody — this is a band that’s powerful enough that if you just sit back and wait, everyone will carve out their own take on it, and it will rise up and have a life of its own. So I loved watching that happen and I really enjoy playing our version as much as the solo version. So that’s how I feel. 

DF: Burning question here — do you still have the Polaroid camera? And where is it?

GOWAN: I have the Polaroid camera. The Polaroid film, however, is in short supply. However, I have been told that it is back in commission. My only real excuse is that I’m having so much fun doing my Go-Pro at the end of shows. In fact, I just posted a video, Doug, before I got on the phone with you. ... The Go-Pro is fantastic, and then all of the people, particularly up front in the show, obviously, get a chance to see themselves a day or two later, to remind themselves of what kind of time they had a couple nights ago — if they’re having trouble remembering. So I really like doing that. Just for the pure analog joy of it I should bring back the Polaroid at some point. 

DF: Good, I was just wondering about that. As one of the lead singers in a band, I know it’s important that you find a connection with the lyrics in some way, you know, what you’re singing, that you have some kind of inner connection with that to really help it come out right. I know this probably has an ebb and flow over time depending on what’s going in your life or whatever, but I’m curious, especially in your case when most of these lyrics you weren’t there, you know, when they were written, but is there a lyric right now that you are singing every night that is really resonating with you or connecting with you right now.

GOWAN: Absolutely. Let’s start from when I joined the band, because when I joined, it was never brought up to me to try to emulate or in any way replicate the sound of the original recordings of the songs, but rather, I remember the time I sang “Lady” or “Grand Illusion,” J.Y. said, “I like the way you’re singing these songs. It’s a different take on them, but they work for me.” And that’s part of how I got into the band. And since that time, particularly when we did “Regeneration,” it’s funny when we did our current lineup version of “Come Sail Away,” I mean, I hear the original version and I hear someone who is very much a young man who, to my ears, sounds very hopeful and optimistic about the future. And when I hear my version, the version with me on it, I hear more of my melancholy Irish side, sounding like someone who’s continuing on the voyage but has had to leave a lot of things behind in order to do this. I just hear the inflection that way, anyway. So that’s my own little interpretation. So when I do that song, that’s how the words strike me, that the journey is bittersweet. There are tremendous moments of triumph and there are tremendous moments of sadness at having to leave things behind in order for the voyage to continue. So that’s just my own kind of overly dramatic way of looking at that one particular song. Lately, what do I really enjoy singing? I think “Pieces of Eight” is a tremendous song that I enjoy singing. You know, I’m not all that materialistic a person to begin with — I have my weaknesses, you know when it comes to Steinways and Mellotrons, and things like that. (laughs) I think we found that we started playing that right around the time the economy was faltering and I could relate to it in that way. And now that things seem to be looking more hopeful, it’s fun that I can relate to it in another way as well. Somehow it obviously affects people’s lives but you can’t necessarily allow it to affect your overall happiness. You somehow have to manage your way through despite the economic peaks or valleys. And I find that to be a point of the song to sing, and it grabs me that way. And the fun song recently, you know, the last couple years, has been singing “I’m OK.” And I have to say, in the last year, since we’ve put “Rockin’ the Paradise” into the encore, that’s just a joy. That’s a physical challenge to be able to run around that much and singing that song at that point in the night. But it really does feel like I’m in the “Paradise Theatre” every single night — I’m not joking about that. The audience converts the place into a “Paradise Theatre.” That’s my own interpretation anyway. So, yeah, those would be the ones. 

DF: That’s cool insight, I enjoy that. Because a lot of that, I think, the audience kind of absorbs it without really necessarily thinking about it or realizing it. So it’s interesting to get your thoughts on that and see how that all comes together.

GOWAN: I enjoy doing other people’s material, I always have. My latest live recording I put out, that “Gowan: In Kilt Tonight,” at the end of the show I did “Somebody to Love” by Freddie Mercury and Queen. And I love doing that one as well. I have a different way of approaching it, or a different way of interpreting those lyrics than Freddie Mercury would have had. Listen, there’s been times in my life when one of my biggest songs in Canada is a song called “Strange Animal,” and I’ve heard some misinterpretations of that lyric that I think are better than what the actual song is written about. So I always keep that in mind and think this is part of the way that I can personalize and bring into the moment some of these great Styx songs that were obviously such a strong factor in the band’s history before I joined. 

DF: I love talking with musicians about how they open a concert because to me that’s really a magical moment.

GOWAN: It is. 

DF: You know, the lights go out, there’s this surge of energy that goes through the crowd — and those moments in the dark before the band actually starts playing. To me that’s kind of a magical time. There’s almost nothing better. And you guys do one of the best jobs at opening because you have that pre-video that plays and it gets to the end and it crescendos up to the top and then there’s that pause. And about 90 percent of the time, I’d say, what happens is you get to play the first live notes of any Styx show — and you get to launch into one of the coolest organ riffs that’s ever been written. What’s that like for you? Are you ever tempted to hold that pause out longer and not start right away? You always start right on cue, but are you ever tempted to hold it out? (laughs)

GOWAN: I am tempted to hold it out, quite honestly, yes. ... It is one of the coolest riffs to open a show with — you’re talking about “Blue Collar Man,” I presume, the organ riff? 

DF: Yes.

GOWAN: So part of me wants to allow that little extended pause before launching into it, and the other part of me is kind of eager to get going with it. And then I’m responsible to the other four musicians on stage to not trip them up and have them go, “Hey, what the hell is going on over there?” So I launch into it in the expected fashion. 

DF: As long as you think about it, that’s good enough for me.

GOWAN: It does strike me, every night. A little surge of electricity runs through my body and it’s not always the static that sometimes comes banging from the mic. It’s a very charged moment, it really is.  

Styx guitarists James "J.Y." Young and Tommy Shaw at the Covey Center in 2012. (Daily Herald photo)

DF: I guess this next question comes from, it's kind of inspired from when you last played here at the Covey Center (in Provo) at the end of 2012, and it was James Young's birthday ...

GOWAN: OK.

DF: We were talking to him after the show, and we brought up the solo at the end of "Queen of Spades." And he said something like, "You know, it was kind of running through my mind. I think I want to play a little Hendrix right here. Should I or shouldn't I?" And he's like, "Why not, it's my birthday -- so I did!" And so I'm wondering, in the course of a show, I mean, you guys are so dialed in musically as a live band, but from night to night, where do you find moments of spontaneity in the show itself, whether it be in the music or the presentation of it? Are there those moments every night? Do you look for them? Do they happen naturally? How does that work?

GOWAN: Yes, absolutely. We do look for them and they do happen naturally and they're not always necessarily obvious to the audience, but those moments are part of what make us enjoy the fact that ... when you're asked, "How can you play the same song nearly 2,000 times and still get something out of it," it's for two reasons. One, each time is another opportunity to try to get it right. You're in different circumstances in front of different people, and it's a different day, and the song means something different on that day if you're open to reflecting on that. But within the song, and it can be just within a few bars -- I'll give you the perfect example. About two weeks ago, (well) Tommy plays a tremendous solo every night in "Crystal Ball." But one night, who knows why, there was something absolutely, almost other-worldly about how he played that solo. You know, what happened and how the amps fed back a little bit on that night, and how the sustain worked and how the vibratos were in there -- but it made me take notice right away and go, immediately after the show, I said, "That solo in 'Crystal Ball' … " I mentioned it to him right after the show, and sure enough, within a minute or so, Libby Ray, our lighting director, she comes backstage a few times just to give us a few notes, and she immediately said, "That 'Crystal Ball' solo tonight was absolutely off the chart, it was outstanding." And it's funny, she noticed it from the back of the house. OK, so she's at the back of the house with the headphones on, calling spot cues and stuff, and she noticed it. And I noticed it standing 3 feet from him, you know what I mean? So, it's those things that I can't quite tell you what it is, because we're not playing jazz up there, we're very faithful to the records, you know? But there are marginal opportunities that spark the performance every single night, and they come along every single night -- and I happen to be in a band that takes note of that, and that's very rare. That's very, very rare. It's one of the things that I love about being part of this is that each guy on stage gets that. They see an opportunity, they're not just playing the notes and going through it because they know the song. They're looking for opportunities within the song to elevate it to a level it's never, perhaps, been before. 

 DF: That's cool. Do you remember what town that was in? 

GOWAN: I do not. (laughs) 

DF: I'd like to go to YouTube and look it up. (laughs) 

GOWAN: I know. I wish I could give you one. I'll tell you one and I'm sure it would be one of three other ones. (laughs) 

DF: It's a mystery then. OK, you touched on it briefly there when you mentioned that you get asked about playing the same song night after night. I'd like to switch things around and put you in the interviewer's chair for a minute. What questions would you like to come up with, that you could answer, rather than the same several that you always get. Can we turn the tables around a little bit?.

GOWAN: You can turn the tables entirely. ... Doug Fox, I'm going to ask you this. When you were a teenager, OK, and I'm assuming you went to a lot of concerts, right? 

DF: Yes. 

GOWAN: When was the moment, in what concert, when was the moment that you realized, "I have to be connected to music in some way for the rest of my life? I cannot just let this be mere entertainment, it has to be something that I'm connected to every day for the rest of my life." Where was that moment? And what concert? 

DF: Well, I can tell you, the first thing that jumps to mind, and it's funny how much it ties back into where we started this conversation, but it was my very first concert, Elton John at Dodger Stadium. 

GOWAN: Oh, wow! You were at that show? 

DF: Yeah, that was my very first concert ever. 

GOWAN: Oh my ... you started off small! (laughs) 

DF: Yeah. (laughs) The thing was, being that that was the first show, when I started going to other shows, I started expecting the same thing. For example, Elton played for three hours and played three separate encores type of a thing. My very second show only lasted like an hour and a half. I'm like, "What the heck, what's going on here? I'd planned a three-hour evening!" And here's the thing I take away, where I kind of knew -- looking back later, I didn't necessarily know at the time, and that was your question – but as I look back on it I realize that was a seminal moment in my concert life that kind of led to all this. But for whatever reason, I took a notebook to the concert and wrote down every song. And I'd never been to a concert, I didn't know if you did this or didn't do this -- it's just I felt the need or the urge that I needed to document what was happening so I could remember it later.

Gowan checks out my notebook from the Dodger Stadium show.

GOWAN: That's great. That is very common. Usually in your life -- I remember a good friend of mine, that actually was my lawyer for a number of years, he said, that you'll notice that you wind up being something you did as a kid, as an adolescent, that seemed completely of no immediate value, something that just didn't seem to make sense at the time but you just did it anyway. That's probably what you'll wind up doing for the rest of your life. Isn't that amazing? 

DF: Yeah. And then, of course, the first time seeing Van Halen was a giant moment for me. 

GOWAN: Ah, really? 

DF: Yeah, but I'm wondering what question would you like to answer that you don't ever really get asked? 

GOWAN: Oh, I see, you want it coming from that angle as well? 

DF: I liked your angle, it threw me for a bit of a loop. I like that. (laughs) 

GOWAN: What don't I get asked that I should be asked more? ... Let me think now ... 

DF: While you're thinking, let me just kind of explain what gave me this idea. Because I read a lot of the interviews that you do, over the Internet, and as you mentioned earlier, you're doing a lot more of them right now, and I kind of cringe at some of the questions ... and it's not like they're bad questions, but they're questions that have been answered over and over. Just from your standpoint, I imagine, hey, it's got to be tough to answer these same ones -- replacing your predecessor, whether Styx has a new album coming out, what it's like to play the same songs every night. You know, those type of things. And so I just wondered, what are the questions going through your mind, "Man, I wish I could talk about this, but nobody asks me about that"? 

GOWAN: Well, I always like to try to make the point, and regardless of the question, and sometimes the questions are very obtuse in how they're presented, but the point I've been trying to make, particularly in these interviews I've been doing the last four or five years ... one of the things that I love about being in the band, one of the many things I love about being in Styx is that I can feel that this band is the culmination of everyone who has ever been a member of it. They're very astute people, musically speaking, and also within the music business. And I think that, you know, there have been 10 people who have ever walked the planet who've been a member of Styx. And I see the band today as being a culmination of all that combined effort, even though there are only six remaining members, including Chuck (Panozzo)  in the gigs that he can make it. There are six remaining members, but I think in each era of the band, the band has found a way to be at the top of their game. And I think that's exactly where we are today. And that's the point that I'd like to see made more often, particularly when you see TV specials about the band or people try to bring up some of the ancient history and the past animosity that may have existed. There's something bigger here. And what's bigger is the band is great today and has always found a way to be great in the past. It's the culmination of all that that makes the band what it is today. And I kind of felt that when I saw the Rolling Stones last year. I think I felt it really profoundly when I realized, Brian Jones was the original guitar player and it was his band. (laughs) Right? So he's not a forgotten man. He's someone who's part of the legacy of what this band was. As was Mick Taylor. As was Billy Preston. As was Nicky Hopkins. Oh my ... Ian Stewart ... such a fantastic part of the Rolling Stones has been the great piano players they've had along the way as well. And now it's Chuck Leavell. So I see that as part of what makes a band great and able to withstand so many changes is the fact that within every era they found a way to have the right person in that place. So that's not necessarily a question, but it's a point that I'd love people to hear more succinctly like that. 

DF: And now they will. 

GOWAN: There you go. 

DF: And I was thinking, I'd be remiss when I was talking about big concert moments if I didn't mention the first Styx show I saw, which was the "Pieces of Eight" tour, so they opened with "Great White Hope." 

GOWAN: Right. 

DF: But they also played "Midnight Ride" in there. And that was a moment I've never forgotten and I keep hoping for again. 

GOWAN: Well, I love that one because I get to play guitar on it. 

DF: In fact, I was going to say, if you have the guitar there, you should play part of that one. 

GOWAN: Sorry, you get the piano version of it. (Plays part of “Midnight Ride” on keyboard in the background.) It's just not the same is it? (laughs) 

DF: No, but that's cool.

GOWAN: (Starts playing piano parts to "Bennie and the Jets" ... )

DF: I'm just going to let you hang up, because I'm going to keep listening to your playing!

GOWAN: Well, Doug Fox, shake it loose. ... Talk to you later!

DF: Goodbye.

GOWAN: Bye. 

Follow Doug Fox on Twitter: @WhatDougFoxsays

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Styx: Welcome to "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" show

As an audience member, it was an uncomfortable moment.

The arena lights were out and the opening introductory film, providing important contextual background to Styx's impending special concert production, suddenly ground to a halt, with the gigantic video board blinking immediately to black.

At first, the delay served as a humorous reminder that no amount of preparation for a live performance can prevent technical stuff, inevitably, from happening at the most inconvenient time. But as the shutdown stretched toward the four-minute mark, those well-versed in Styx history undoubtedly had one of the band's most infamous moments cross their minds.

But this was not Chicago, circa 1981, and this was not the opening reel to the elaborate "Kilroy Was Here" tour -- the incident where everyone in attendance was sent home grumbling without a show when the projection failed. Instead, this was Las Vegas, 2012, the first of two "Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" concerts at the Pearl Theatre at the Palms Resort. And nobody would be leaving without a rock show -- video accompaniment or not.

Sure enough, after about a five-minute delay, the intro film started again, jumping ahead to the depiction of a teenage boy, alone in his room in 1977, scanning through a stack of albums and pulling out "The Grand Illusion." (How many of us discovered Styx, and many other bands, in this same exact way?) He removed the record and carefully placed it on a turntable, dropping the needle on Track 1, as Styx began the actual concert by launching into the title track.

I watched the band with intent curiosity that first song, looking for any telltale sign of stress, frustration or exasperation following the technical delay -- and certainly, any such reaction would be understandable to some degree. But there was absolutely none. Not a single trace. In fact, the band looked as confident and composed starting a show as any of the previous 29 times I'd seen them.

One of those previous times, incidentally, was the night before, when the band held a full rehearsal for the two special-format shows, which had not been performed live together since their original limited Eastern run in the fall of 2010. In rehearsal, the band was all business during "The Grand Illusion" portion of the run-through. There was a 10-minute-or-so interruption for a live TV interview segment (video clip from rehearsal above and below). Then the band was back to work on "Pieces of Eight" -- where everyone seemed to loosen up as the songs rolled along. Keyboardist Lawrence Gowan strolled the stage, and out into the empty arena, during one song, playfully grabbing his crotch while doing an exaggerated impression of a rapper. At another point, most of the band broke out impressions of "The Sloppy Swish" -- a "Saturday Night Live" skit maneuver, which cannot adequately be described, but should be Googled. Tellingly, the music was still played flawlessly despite the addition of the awkward "Sloppy Swish" choreography.

While "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" double-album production was not performed West of the Mississippi until those two November Vegas shows, the project itself has had a huge impact in Styx's live performances ever since -- in that several of the deeper album cuts from those two records have elbowed their way into the band's nightly sets on a rotating basis. These songs have provided a welcome nod to the hardcore fans, sprinkled in as they are with the band's obligatory greatest hits, and given shows some spontaneous variety.

Another tangible fan benefit of the project was a fantastic DVD (as well as a double audio CD), recorded live on Nov. 9, 2010, at the Orpheum Theater in Memphis. The DVD not only excellently captures the production -- complete with special video content exclusive to the double-album show -- but it also captures the band in peak form, honed by years of constant touring. Not coincidentally, the DVD will make its broadcast premiere tonight on Palladia, followed by a Feb. 1 showing on VH1 Classic. Fans should check local listings for air times for both programs.

"This is the most magnificent piece of video we've done," said James "JY" Young in a press release marking the broadcast premiere of the DVD. "Our two biggest-selling albums performed live in their entirety, all captured in state-of-the-art high definition is something we're extremely proud of. The collective skill set of the people involved in this project rivals NASA in its heydey."

One of my favorite deep album cuts has always been "Man in the Wilderness," a song that was resurrected by this project and, thankfully, has become a staple of the live set ever since. Watching the DVD for the first time, I was struck by guitarist Tommy Shaw's introduction to the inspiring song -- which only piqued my interest in learning even more about it. A short time after that, I had occasion to discuss "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" tour and DVD with Shaw, and he also graciously provided even more insight into not only the genesis of "Man in the Wilderness" but the emotional investment it takes to be able to pull it off live on a nightly basis.

This informal email interview took place in February of 2012 -- but I've been sitting on it in hopes of tying it in with a potential Western leg of "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" tour. At this point, I'm not sure if or when that may ever occur -- and the band has mentioned the possibility of pulling the production out randomly for special occasions, such as the two Vegas shows in November. As Shaw mentions at the end of this interview, the idea is out there in the ether ...

That being the case, it seems somewhat appropriate to release this brief interview in conjunction with the broadcast premieres of the DVD.

Enjoy!

DOUG FOX: Way back when we first talked about this, before the tour, you mentioned that you were skeptical of the idea when it was first presented. Looking back at that time, to when you actually performed the tour and recorded the DVD, how did your feelings change and/or what caused your feelings to change?

TOMMY SHAW: I'm not sure my feelings have changed. Live video shoots always take away from the actual performance. You get in a groove and it's all purely about the show, then you bring in the video crew and it throws the whole thing off kilter -- there's no getting around it. That's me as the band member talking. But I realized very early on that this was something that deserved being preserved for posterity, so it was me who pushed for it early on. JY, as producer, was saddled with the most time-consuming part of seeing the whole thing through, so all credit for how well it came out goes to him and the amazing group he assembled to bring it home.

DF: Obviously, with the band's vast experience of live performing, you probably go into any project with a certain level of expectation of how it's going to go over. Was there an aspect to this show -- whether it be a certain song, a group of songs, a production value or anything else -- that really surprised you in how it was received night after night?

SHAW: It was a complete unknown until the first time we performed it on stage before a live audience. You've seen our shows -- there is an arc, you know, how we like it to flow. Because we were playing the songs in the order they appeared on the original albums, that was off the table. We would be playing songs many fans might never have heard before unless they listened to the entire albums. What we did know in our hearts was that those albums were rock solid from beginning to end and had such a good flow, it could be enjoyed on the first listening. And that's what happened when we performed it live, thank goodness.

DF: On the DVD, I was intrigued by your introduction to "Man in the Wilderness" and how it was sparked after you opened for Kansas one night in Detroit, and then you turned around and wrote it the next day. I'm wondering if you can go into a little more detail on that. First, I've always loved that song, and know that it has been a fan favorite all these years, but it has a certain imagery to it that has always been intriguing. What was it specifically about what you experienced at the Kansas show and its merging with your own experiences that led to "Man in the Wilderness." And, did you really write it all the next day -- did it come that quickly and completely?

SHAW: I kneeled behind the back seat of the auditorium to experience Kansas for the first time. Epic! Unlike any presentation of rock music I'd ever experienced. To go that big opened up all kinds of ideas in my mind, and the next time I was alone with my acoustic, the song more or less unfolded itself. The lyrics were there in rough form right away. Think about it -- to go from playing in a bowling alley lounge to the kinds of venues we were beginning to play on a regular basis, and being away from home all the time, it was strange at first to be standing out there getting that kind of response from so many people who didn't really know me or how I was feeling at the time, etc. My brother was a tank commander in Quang Tri during the war in Vietnam. It was a very difficult job and took its toll on his spirit for a long time. He's a lot like me, and I could never imagine what it must have been like or how I would have handled it. Then to have it all be such a senseless chess game played by old men in Washington, D.C. -- it was worthy of a mention in the song.

DF: In regards to "The Grand Illusion" -- did you already have the album's theme in mind or a grouping of songs that fit the theme? In other words, regarding "Man in the Wilderness," did you already have "The Grand Illusion" theme in mind when you wrote it?

SHAW: Dennis [DeYoung] had the verses and choruses to the song early on and played it for us. It spoke to all of us and what we were experiencing as members of the same band, as our popularity grew and we started to make some money. We were a very tight group musically at that time, and it was all for one and one for all -- this wonderful moment in the life of any band. So we all began to pour our hearts into it like one big "AMEN!" Although there are credits for who wrote what, it was more the credit for who wrote the essence of the songs because everyone contributed unabashedly to each other's songs. The same can be said for the "Pieces of Eight" album. That's what sets those two apart from albums that came later. Again, the prime season of innocence in the life of a band.

DF: Of the songs the band had never played before live prior to this tour -- or rarely played, for that matter -- which one is your favorite?

SHAW: My favorite song to sing is "Man in the Wilderness." The only way to do that song is all in. There's no easy version of it that I can imagine. So when I'm done, I have to come back from that wonderful place it takes me. Every time. It's hard to explain, but for example, I have to really concentrate to play whatever the next song is because I often don't feel like I've completely come back. I feel a little bad for that because I have gunked up that next song on more than one occasion as I come back to the present moment. To me, there's no better live experience than getting lost in a song. Then there's the song "Pieces of Eight." [It] never got much attention or airplay but it is such an iconic Styx song content wise. Beautiful melody and lyrics, then treated with TLC as we put it together. We spent a lot of time arranging that song, especially the middle section, and when it resolves to the three-part- harmony at the end, I want to salute. It always holds its own.

DF: Oh -- and for all of us out here in the West, what are the chances this tour will be revisited again, and brought to the West?

SHAW: JY and I were just discussing this subject, and our manager brought it up a couple of days later. No plans for now, but the idea is out there in the ether ...

Note: I originally talked to Tommy, JY, Lawrence and Todd prior to the start of "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" tour. That story can be read HERE.

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Ice as nice: James Young recalls Styx's first Utah visit

Styx guitarist James Young in concert at USANA Amphitheatre in 2011. (Doug Fox)

Looking back, it's obvious that guitarist James "JY" Young served as my initial portal to StyxWorld in a couple key ways.

The first real Styx song I fell in love with was "Miss America," the lead track on Side II of "The Grand Illusion." On first listen in 1977, I was somewhat lulled into complacency by the droning keyboard intro. The stunning payoff, however, came with a punch to the gut of adrenaline as the song's main nasty guitar riff took over.

Yes, Styx had me at "You were the apple of the public's eye."

A few years later when I was at college, some like-minded, rock-loving dorm friends turned me on to the "Equinox" album. Is it any surprise that I was immediately drawn to "Midnight Ride," one of the most rocking Styx tunes ever put to vinyl?

Of course, both "Miss America" and "Midnight Ride" are powered not only by Young's lead guitar playing, but also by his vocals.

Jumping a couple decades into the future, when I was starting to get a bit more involved in music writing, Young became the first member of Styx I did an interview with. I remember mentioning my fascination with "Miss America" and "Midnight Ride" and Young saying, "Well, you must be one rocking dude" -- or something close to that.

With Styx's constant touring schedule, as well as several more in-depth side projects, I have had the opportunity to interview JY so many times that it would take a real mental fact-checking exercise to determine just how many. I've found each time interesting and engaging on its own merits.

With so much experience behind us, JY and I kind of have an unspoken agreement. He knows that I am somehow going to bring up "Midnight Ride" in the course of an interview, and I know that he will laugh but remain mostly non-committal about whether I will ever get the chance to see it played live again. That's how we roll.

A majority of this interview takes a look back at an early period in Styx history -- when "Lady" first became a hit in Utah and Styx played an infamous local show in Provo at a place called the Ice House in 1973. With Styx returning to Provo on Wednesday -- the first time since that 1973 show -- it provided a perfect opportunity to revisit those early days, not only with JY, but also with the local radio program directors who helped make "Lady" a hit more than a year before the song broke nationally. (To read that full story, click HERE.)

Young also talked about the resurrection of the band's well-received "Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" show, which features both those albums being played in sequence and in their entirety. Following the Provo concert, the band will head to Las Vegas for two special performances of that show on Friday and Saturday. Check back for a review of that show next week.

As it turns out, the obligatory "Midnight Ride" reference spontaneously came early in our conversation this time around. JY is usually extremely prompt, so when his call came a bit more than five minutes late, it was a rare occurrence. Turns out a couple digits in my phone number were transposed. The innocent mixup left the door open for a "Midnight Ride" parry.

DOUG FOX: It’s not like you've never called this number before!

JAMES YOUNG: No, but usually I don’t call on cell phones. I may have it in my little Hewlett Packard Palm Top that’s vintage 1991 that I keep most of my most important secret information on because most of today’s geeks don’t know how to work it.

DF: Well, that’s probably where you have the decoded information of when “Midnight Ride” will appear in the setlist again, too.

YOUNG: (laughs heartily)

DF: We couldn’t have a conversation if I didn’t bring that up at least once!

YOUNG: Well, yeah, it’s very reinforcing to me and my voice, which I was struggling with for quite a while. Actually I went back and took some voice lessons and learned about the horrors of acid reflux and what it could do to your throat, so I’m still not ... proper rest is an important thing, shutting your mouth during the rest of the day is an important thing, and I allow Tommy [Shaw] that privilege because we are more dependent on his voice than mine, but unfortunately because I’m on the phone a lot and when it comes to showtime I’m just not the guy who sang “You Need Love” and “Midnight Ride.” I’m about a step, step and a half lower than that.

DF: But it sounds like you said you’re gradually getting back there.

YOUNG: Well, I think over the space of a couple of years I’ve absolutely regained — there’s better living through proper chemistry and then actually even diet has improved. I gave up Coca-Cola about nine months ago today, actually, January 28th, well, late January, roughly nine months ago today.

DF: So, if I’m understanding you correctly, in my eternal optimism, you’re telling me there’s a chance!

YOUNG: (laughs) So you’re saying there’s a chance!

DF: Exactly!

YOUNG: One in a million — so you’re saying there’s a chance! Jim Carrey’s great line. (laughs)

DF: That’s exactly right. As long as there’s that chance, I’ll continue hoping.

YOUNG: Oh, yeah.

DF: Where are you calling from today?

YOUNG: Lovely, we’ll call it Escanaba, Michigan, because you can actually find that on a map, but we’re about 20 miles west of there in a tiny little place called Harris in a Native American casino-type situation.

DF: That’s where you’re playing tonight?

YOUNG: Tonight and tomorrow, yeah.

DF: It’s funny, I checked out on the Internet some of your recent setlists, and it had one for a show, it said it was in the last couple days, but it had all these songs that I know there’s no way you could have possibly been playing. Well, like it had Babe in there, and an entire setlist of songs that I know somebody was just messing around.

YOUNG: Well, we have lately done “Castle Walls,” “Pieces of Eight” — but those aren’t the two you’re talking about.

DF: No, I mean, it had “She Cares,” “Half-Penny Two-Penny,” just a bunch of really obscure songs ... “Shooz” ...

YOUNG: Yeah, someone is dreaming there.

DF: Yeah. I figured that with the shows coming up in Las Vegas ...

YOUNG: We’re rehearsing the deep tracks there, yeah. We rehearsed “Lords of the Ring,” which is the toughest one.

DF: Yeah, I’ll ask you more about that later.

YOUNG: OK.

DF: But first of all, I know you’re fond of saying that if it wasn’t for flashbacks you wouldn’t remember much of the 70s ...

YOUNG: (Laughs)

DF: But I also know you’re the band historian.

YOUNG: Well, that’s a fun joke to get out of answering these questions, but I do save — they will have a “Hoarders” TV show about me at some point. But I can still sort of walk through all of the rooms in my house, but not quite.

DF: That would be some treasure trove, I imagine.

YOUNG: Well, who knows what kind of value some of that stuff’s going to have and there’s a memory attached to each one. I ran across something just yesterday, it was a photo from before Tommy was in the band. It was some sort of Styx ID and I looked like Lawrence’s son. Kind of sour-pussed and dark and long straggly hair and a beard. It’s fun to have that stuff to touch base with and what have you — but I know we’re going to talk about the past today and I’m ready!

DF: All right, excellent — because that’s especially why I wanted to talk to you, because I wanted to delve into what you remember about that first show in Provo. Even dating back to that first time we talked, I think it was in 1996, you brought up the history about how Provo was one of the original three cities where “Lady” first became a hit and how you’d driven out here in a rented motor home to play the Ice House. So with obviously the Provo show coming up again — and correct me if I’m wrong, as near as I can figure out this is the first show actually back in Provo since the Ice House show in ’73 — I know you played nearby Orem a few times.

YOUNG: OK, Orem we definitely played, starting in ’96, we were there two or three times.

DF: See that’s what I mean, you’ve got a good memory because I think it’s three times.

YOUNG: But going back to the heyday, I mean this is the thing I think that stands out, and we’ll get to Provo in a second, very few places were we able to sell out three arenas. Mostly in top 10 cities, I’m talking about Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, where you have that sort of population. Detroit was a place where we did three Cobo Halls at one point in time. St. Louis we probably did two arenas, Kansas City, places like that, and Dallas and Houston. But Salt Lake City on the “Paradise Theatre” tour, we did three shows at the Salt Palace. And I know in recent times, you know, actually I think it was when we released “Big Bang Theory” and they were tracking sales around the country and Los Angeles and Chicago were neck and neck — of course Los Angeles is bigger, so per capita, Chicago has always been our biggest, but the second-biggest per capita place for the sale of Styx music is Salt Lake City. It’s, basically, ‘Wow, all this is coming from that much less population base.’ So something about our music caught on in 1973. And we were managed by a guy in ’73 named Vince DePaul, who was married to one of Dennis DeYoung’s female cousins. And he understood the business on a local level and how to get work for a band and how to keep (them) performing, playing, whatever. But once we got a recording contract and stuff, he was kind of ill-equipped to cope with it. And when “Lady” out of the clear blue, with the release of our second LP, you know, all of a sudden we hear we’re getting airplay in Rapid City, South Dakota, Little Rock, Arkansas, and a place called Provo, Utah, which I’d never heard of before then, and KEYY radio, we didn’t have a proper national booking agent, and we didn’t have a lot of things organized about our career that major acts that were better represented had. Ultimately we parted company with him because his skill set, we all sort of felt, we thanked him for his service getting us where we got, but felt that he was an impediment to us going any further at all — but he took it upon himself to somehow find a way to get us booked in Utah, and that was the Ice House. I don’t know if we were the opening act there, but I know we played there early in the life of that club.

DF: So, when you first heard this, you didn’t have any idea where Provo was?

YOUNG: Well, my family, my dad was very much into taking long automobile trips with his wife and five children. In 1955, we drove all the way to California to see one of my uncles, and we got there, I think, just before Disneyland opened. We drove past it, but “It’s not open yet, we can’t get in there!” Then we drove up to San Francisco to see some relative on my mother’s side, and drove back home. This was with five kids in the car, in a ’55 Buick ... so I’m not geographically challenged, I know where things are, but the lesser cities of the great state of Utah were unbeknownst to me at that point in my life even though I was a college graduate and had traveled quite a bit. But, no, it was exciting to go far away and then see that sort of a response to our music when we’d been banging our heads against the wall in front of, maybe sold-out clubs, but we were still doing a lot of cover songs there and had a reputation in Chicago, and was sort of spread around the Midwest from our performances — but, you know, to go that far away, 1,500 miles ... it was a very exciting time for us in our development as a major league recording act.

DF: Right, and that’s what I was going to ask you about. At the time you traveled all the way out here, what was your road experience at the time? It sounds like you’d been doing shows around the Midwest, if I understood you correctly, but you had not been on a trip this far away?

YOUNG: No, we’d go places like Peoria, Illinois, and up to Milwaukee, over to Indiana, maybe over to Michigan, but at that point in time, I’m not sure. Because I was out of college and driving a cab part-time to make ends meet with the money we were making from performing, and I think Dennis and Chuck (Panozzo) still were teachers. Dennis was a music teacher and Chuck was an art teacher, so they still had full-time jobs up until, I think, the release of “Styx II.” And they may have kept them beyond that even. Some of that kind of limited what we did because reason and financial necessity sort of dictated, (laughs) “Don’t give up something you’ve worked your whole life for, that is a teaching degree and the way to work on something that may never come to fruition, financially for yourself.” And Dennis’s wife, who I know was interested in the future well-being of herself and her daughter, was very outspoken about it all. But I’m a little bit vague, I should have gone back because I know there’s this website, Styxtoury, which is not perfect, but it’s pretty close on a lot of things that went on way back when in terms of the shows we played. Have you ever seen that website?

DF: I might have in the past, but I’ll have to go back and look at it again.

YOUNG: But I think we did not stray far outside of a 200-mile radius of Chicago.

DF: OK. Can you elaborate a bit more on the actual road trip? I remember you telling me once it was during the oil embargo.

YOUNG: Well there was a couple of different trips that happened. The first one might have been during the oil embargo and I think Dennis was not feeling well, so he got on an airplane and John Panozzo and I decided we were just going to drive it back and drive it straight through. But that was clearly during the Arab oil embargo. We had an extra can of gas with us, which I think may not have been legal, but nonetheless we felt going through the mountains ... I think we got to Evanston, Wyoming, and realized we were going to run out, so we sort of fashioned a road map into a funnel and poured whatever we had left into the tank and managed to make it to a gas station somewhere. But that’s a slice of American history as experienced by two members of Styx in the middle of the mountains, going, “Are we out of our minds here, why are we doing this kind of a thing?” But being young enough and bull-headed enough to say, “We can do this!” So we just traded off, and had a wonderful steak in Kearney, Nebraska, and I’d driven much of the way, and then John Panozzo took it much of the way home ... 27 hours, with one steak dinner in the middle of that, and get back to Chicago.

DF: Those are the types of experiences that generally turn into good songs!

YOUNG: Uh, yeah!

DF: Do you have any memories of the actual show itself? I know that may be kind of difficult.

YOUNG: Well, I have a picture in my mind of the club — but it is vague — and what the audience looked like. But it’s very vague. I wish I could, but I can’t give you very much on that.

DF: That’s understandable — who knows how many thousands of shows later. What type of a setlist might you have been playing in those days? Not the order, but the typical songs.

The building that used to contain the Ice House, on 100 West in Provo. (Jim Mcauley/Daily Herald)

YOUNG: Well, my guess is we probably still would have been playing some covers at that point in time. We probably played a number of originals, but probably would have worked in something like “Whole Lotta Love” and some of the covers that really got a big reaction at that point in time, where people were amazed that those guys could sing as high as Robert Plant on that song, or what have you. “Aimless Lady” was one song that I sang, that we did from time to time, by Grand Funk. We were known for early on, Dennis, we would do the Sly and the Family Stone thing, and Dennis would go off into this feel-good rap and get the audience in a call-and-response kind of thing where he got the audience wound up and spoke to them — which seems to be somewhat at every stage of our career, he’s taken it upon himself to do that. Tommy even tells a story about how, because he was not in the band at that point in time, that they heard that Styx had this feel-good thing that really got the crowd going crazy, and he said all the club bands hated us because we weren’t stuck playing, you know, five sets a night, six nights a week in some bar until five in the morning or whatever it was. But when Tommy auditioned, “Midnight Ride” was actually the first song — I don’t know if you’ve heard that part of the story?

DF: Yeah, you’d told me that.

YOUNG: His band was broke up at that point in time and he was back playing a bowling alley in Montgomery, Alabama, kind of a thing just to make ends meet, whatever. And in his own mind, as he would tell it, “I’ve got to be part of this band. I’ve got to do this.” So, that feel-good thing was a big thing. “Whole Lotta Love” was one that comes to my mind.

(Telephone rings on his end) ...

YOUNG: Now I have another interview I’m supposed to do in like five minutes. Can I call you back after that?

DF: Sure.

YOUNG: Actually, I’m just calling The Arrow in Salt Lake City.

DF: Oh, OK.

YOUNG: And  then I’ll get right back to you.

DF: Fine, sounds great.

YOUNG: Hold on a second, we’ve got another couple minutes.

DF: I’ll keep my eye on the clock, but let me know for sure. ... As part of the story, I’m trying to track some people down who were actually at the show and get their reactions. I’ve talked to one person so far and he mentioned that one memory he has, of course, he’s familiar with the song “Lady” and that was the only thing he was familiar with going in, so that was kind of what he was expecting, but then he got to the show and he said it was a lot more rocking than he expected going in. That’s probably a lot of the material you were playing then.

YOUNG: Yeah, I’m having a hard time remembering what the actual setlist might have been, but I know when we were a club band we’d do a couple of sets so there had to be cover stuff in there. There may not have been that much covers, but if they had us play two sets, that’s something I couldn’t tell you. But we had two albums of material to draw from at that point in time, obviously because we’d recorded “Styx II.” But I’m sure there would have been some notable covers in there, like I said “Whole Lotta Love.” John Curulewski was there, he wrote “22 Years,” which is quite a rocking song. Our best thing, obviously, from “Styx I,” that we would have done, “Mother Nature’s Matinee,” we always did that one. I’m not sure if we did “Children of the Land” — those were the three originals off the first one. We may have done some of the covers that they made us do on that first record. We had material from the second record, “Father, Oh I Say” would have been a strong one I think we always played. “You Need Love” we would have played. We had two albums of originals to work from at that point, but I’ll bet there were certainly some covers in the set.

DF: OK. Was there a feeling after that that this might be a stepping stone to something bigger — not that the show was in Provo, but just that there was starting to be a demand in previously unenvisioned locales?

YOUNG: (laughs) Well there was great optimism, which lasted for a brief period of time until we put out “Serpent is Rising” and then, really, nothing happened at all. I remember Dennis saying to me at one point, “Well, J.Y., we’ve seen our heyday.” (laughs) And even for his sometimes pessimistic attitude, (I thought) “I think it’s a little early for that.” (laughs)

YOUNG: Let me call these other guys.

DF: OK, I’ll catch you after.

(Interview continues after Young calls back.)

DF: I guess it’s no stretch to say that Provo still holds a soft spot in Styx history?

YOUNG: Oh, tremendously. I mean, the first time, I can even remember back in my teenage years when myself as a musician got recognized in any way shape or form, those things sort of stay with you. The band that I had with my brother that was sort of a precursor to Styx, all those things, every little milestone that we had are kind of things that you’ll never forget. And particularly, Utah, which just is a unique place unto itself for a variety of reasons, yeah, and the trips back and forth that were filled with drama, all those things just kind of will always be with me.

DF: Just one final question on that because you had mentioned it — there have been rumors, some people have thought there was a second show, but I’ve been able to find no documentation on it.

YOUNG: Well, now that you’re saying that, it’s quite possible that there was not. I do remember there was another time where we were out in the — I swore that we drove back twice from Salt Lake City, but maybe I’m wrong about that. We’ve done some long drives along I-80, and in fact had an accident, it wasn’t a rented motor home actually, we had purchased, we actually owned one, but it should have had four tires on the back axle instead of two like a passenger van, because we overloaded that thing. (laughs) We brought back all kinds of Coors beer from Colorado, so we were at least as far as Colorado, but maybe we didn’t get ... and there was a famous story where Dennis was driving and we were supposed to be going north from Wyoming into the Dakotas — and so the fact that we were so far west, I thought we came back and played again, but perhaps we did not.

DF: Like I said, that rumor’s been out there ...

YOUNG: Well, I’m probably the one that started it! But I remember two long trips in that motor home and both coming east along I-80. Because there was one with John Panozzo and there was just two of us and the next one was when we had the accident, I think actually John Panozzo was ill. He couldn’t make the trip, so actually the guy that was our drum tech at that point in time sat in on the drums and he was in this vehicle when we had this accident. Mike Phillips — so Ricky Phillips wasn’t actually the first Phillips to be on stage as a member of Styx.

DF: But they’re not related?

YOUNG: No. At least not to my knowledge. You never know. Probably eight steps removed, maybe, who knows?

DF: Yeah, and I was surprised to find out that Ricky had lived in Salt Lake.

YOUNG: Ricky spent quite a long time in a band that was based in Salt Lake. He said they were incredibly talented guys but just kind of very much socially dysfunctional. One of them got arrested for some prank in a city in Nebraska or something, I don’t know. Spent a week in jail or something like that. (laughs) It’s kind of hard to schedule your life when guys don’t have enough sense to not get themselves tossed in jail for some stupid prank — an M-80, I think, in a bathroom in a restaurant that blew it up and caused all sorts of commotion.

DF: Yeah, you’ve got to at least be throwing TVs out of high rises ... you’ve got to get some mileage out of your bad pranks. (laughs) OK, moving back to the present — you’ll be immediately following up the Provo concert with the resurrection of “The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight” shows in Las Vegas, how do you feel about revisiting that?

YOUNG: It was the hardest I think the band worked at rehearsing certainly since Ricky Phillips has been in the band. I mean, because Tommy and I had to go back and relearn things, and there’s things that we had never performed live so we had to figure out how to make them actually stand up on stage. “Superstars” was something we were always afraid of, but having four guys that can sing when you’ve got those long-block harmonies that kind of extend forever, that kind of fries my voice to do anything after that, and then I’m doing the rant that Dennis did on the original record, which completely fries my voice, so it’s kind of (in high voice) coming back and trying to sing the harmonies (in regular voice) was not really coming out too well. But we found a way to, with modern technology, to sort of have a keyboard on a certain vocal sounding pad to help reinforce that. There’s nothing on tape it’s technology as our friend here as well as having four singers instead of just three. But I love that show and it’s songs that I never thought we’d play live, we’re playing live. And the visuals behind it, my dear friend Steve Jones, who is a feature film producer and was an animation director before that, and he’s still an aspiring director, he teaches a class in film production actually at DePaul University now at a graduate level, but Steve’s always wanted to be a director and never quite gotten there, but he is the director of the visuals that are on the screen behind us that are part of that whole show. I like it because it’s kind of a junior Floydian presentation, it’s not simply a rock band and a sound system and moving lights, but there’s a whole additional production element there that I think is magical that goes along with the songs. I think it really takes the Styx live performance to another level and a lot of the tours we’ve done, the package tours where we can afford to bring that with us — because it’s expensive to have that video wall behind us and run it and another truck to drag it around and what have you, so whenever we get a chance to use it, particularly in this way, which I think we’ve done a marvelous job with this. I’m very proud of it and I encourage people to check it out. And if they can’t get down there, the DVD, particularly the 5.1 is amazing.

DF: I was going to say, speaking for myself from the perspective of someone who hasn’t seen that live show in person, I thought the DVD captured things extremely well.

YOUNG: (laughs) I’ve spent too much time post-producing it, I can’t bring myself to sit down and look at it. (laughs) Because I still see the flaws that we could have — “If we’d only had that camera shot from that angle this would be better!” But you’re always going to do that and that’s why people a lot of times they work as hard as they possibly can to make something as great as they can, and it’s impossible to ever completely step back from it. Maybe 10 years from now I’ll be able to do it. I’m still not ready for that.

DF: Well, the good thing is you get to break it out live every so often.

YOUNG: And that’s what we’re doing.

DF: And you did mention the visuals, and I think my favorite part is the guy sifting through the albums and pulling one out and putting it down on the turntable.

YOUNG: Well, that was Tommy’s idea, that my friend Steve did make that come to life.

DF: That really resonated with me because that’s how I kind of experienced my watershed Styx moment — when a friend pulled out “Grand Illusion” for the first time, dropped the needle on “Miss America” and said, “Check this out!”

YOUNG: Wow.

DF: And I’ve been checking it out for 35 years now.

YOUNG: (laughs) How ’bout that!

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