Don Felder: This Eagle has landed

Don Felder is on tour this summer with Styx and Foreigner on the "Soundtrack of Summer" tour.

I suppose one could talk with former Eagles guitarist Don Felder and not bring up his role in creating one of the most iconic songs in rock history. But why would you want to miss out on that?

"Hotel California" holds a special place in my own personal memory as it was the very first song that I ever saw the Eagles perform live. I was a relatively new Eagles fan when I saw them on Oct. 22, 1976, as part of a three-night stand at the Forum in Los Angeles. So when I heard the cool opening song -- I could tell from the chorus, and a neon sign blinking behind the stage, that it was called "Hotel California" -- I simply assumed it was an album cut I was unfamiliar with. It wasn't until a month and a half later, when the "Hotel California" album was officially released, that I recognized my error.

What was not in error during my first introduction to that song, however, was the impression that it was indeed something special. It remains a classic concert-opening song to this day. As Felder said during our interview, " It’s like walking out on stage and just punching somebody right in the chin. 'Boooom!' You know?"

Felder is no longer in the Eagles, of course, following a well-publicized acrimonious split in 2001. But the guitarist is fronting his own band now and touring behind his 2012 solo album "Road to Forever."

This summer Felder is playing the opening slot on the "Soundtrack of Summer" tour with Styx and Foreigner, which comes to USANA Amphitheatre on Wednesday. For this tour, "Hotel California" is getting some extra love and attention -- as Felder is joined by Styx guitarist Tommy Shaw in a rousing set-closing rendition of the classic tune.

This interview took place in March, before the start of the tour. After a few minutes of chit-chat -- in which Felder mentioned how he was blessed with the "gift of gab," an assessment which definitely proved true in the course of our discussion -- we got down to business.

DOUG FOX: I’ve got to say, it’s an honor to talk to the guitarist who wrote one of the greatest concert-opening songs of all time. And who knew that “Mexican Bolero” would become such a hit?

DON FELDER: (laughs) Certainly not me!

FOX: The first time that I saw the Eagles, I was living in L.A. at the time in October of ‘76, and it was only my third concert ever, and of course you came out and opened with “Hotel California” -- looking back, I think one of the things I find most interesting about that is that was before the album came out, before the song was released, and nobody had heard that, but just the fact that you played it at that point, and especially since you opened the show with it and it went over so well, to me looking back at it now, I’m like, “Man, that showed a tremendous amount of confidence in that song." Did you guys know what you had when you first wrote it?

FELDER: You know, I don’t think any artist ever really knows. I mean, you can write a song, you can record it in the studio, you can put it out, distribute it, promote it -- you just don’t know what’s going to resonate with audiences until you see the results of your work. I think my studio wall is covered with ideas that I’ve splattered up to see what’s going to stick to the wall, you know? And to me, I think I wrote 16 or 17 song ideas for what was going to become the “Hotel California” record, and one of them became “Victim of Love” and another one became “Hotel California.” And at the time it was just on the cassette of, like, 16 or 17 other song ideas. Don (Henley) heard it and said, “I like that thing that sounds kind of like a Mexican reggae or bolero, you know. That was the only thing that was on that reel that sounded like that. Imagine the difference between hearing the track to “Hotel California” and the track to “Victim of Love,” it’s opposite ends of the spectrum really. So we started working on the lyrics, and he and Glenn kind of ran off into their own world. Mostly I think Don came up with a large part of those lyrics, he’s a brilliant lyricist and an English-lit major and has the way of writing lyrics as little flashcards, or postcards, that show you a little picture, and another little picture and another little picture until you finally hit the chorus and you go, “Oh, I see what the story’s about!” And he’s just a genius lyricist, in my opinion. So he came in with the lyrics pretty much finished, with a few corrections here and there they made as were going through it. When we finished recording it in the studio, the record company had been pounding on our door to get this record -- they wanted to put it out and follow up “One of These Nights,” which was the biggest success that the Eagles had had to that time for an album. And so, finally, when we finished it, we had it all mixed and sequenced on two-track, we invited them over, played the record for them and after “Hotel California,” Henley stopped, turned around and said, “That’s going to be our single.” And I don’t know if you know, I don’t know how old you are, but the format for AM radio in the ‘70s, was that it had to be 3 minutes and 30 seconds long or less. You had to either have it be a rock song, a dance song or a drippy ballad. The introduction had to be under 30 seconds so the disc jockey didn’t have to talk so long before the singing started. And “Hotel California” was exactly wrong on all formats. It was six and a half minutes long, the introduction was a minute, you couldn’t dance to it, it stops in the middle, it breaks down with no drums and it’s got this two-minute guitar solo on the end of it. It’s completely wrong for AM radio. So when Don said, “That’s going to be our next single,” I said, “You know, I think that’s wrong. That’s like an FM track, I don’t think that should be on AM radio. I think that’s not the right call.” And he said, “Nope, that’s what we’re going to do.” And I went, “OK, but I told you so.” And I’ve never been so happy to have been so wrong in my life. He was right. He heard something in that that he believed in, so good for him.

FOX: That’s another thing that made it interesting for me because you were playing it in shows before it was ever released on radio. Like you said, you never really know how something will be received by the public until you put it out there. So when you started playing it in the shows, that was essentially your first reactions to the songs publicly.

FELDER: It was. It truly was. Yeah, we had actually, I think ... was that the “Hotel California” show at the Forum?

FOX: Yes, there were three of them.

FELDER: Yeah. We had done that that whole tour. In fact, some of the video that was in “The History of the Eagles” was shot on the road ...

FOX: In Washington?

FELDER: Washington or Philadelphia or somewhere back East.

FOX: I think it was Washington.

FELDER: Yeah, thank you. And we had made that into a video that was pre-MTV and sent it to Japan, and sent it to Europe and Australia so they could run that on television as kind of a commercial for the record, so it could sponsor and promote record sales because we weren’t going to get there for like a year, year and a half by the time we toured the United States and Canada, finally you go to Europe and finally you go to Japan and finally you go to Australia, you know, we wanted them to be able to kind of see what it was. So that’s where that footage came from. So, you know, we were kind of on board with that song once we started doing it live and seeing how well people responded to it. It was really a good opener. It’s like walking out on stage and just punching somebody right in the chin. “Boooom!” You know?

FOX: Exactly! As somebody who has gone to a ton of concerts, I’m a big fan of how bands open their shows. It’s really an art, and it's got to be an art to come up with a song that fits that moment so perfectly.

FELDER: Well, I don’t know that it was ever written with the intent that it be an opening song in the show. Usually people save their biggest hits for the last song in the set or an encore or something later. But we just said, “We broke the rules on AM radio, let’s break the rules for this song, let’s just go out and do it first.” Even now, when I go out and do my live show, I usually start with “Hotel California.” Everybody gets up and stands up and applauds it, and it just gets a really great reaction. As a matter of fact, I think one of the nicest things that really struck me, I did this show a couple years ago for the United Nations in New York. There were about 450 people there, either presidents or dignitaries, secretaries of state from all over the world at this show -- and about half of them didn’t even speak English. I went out and did “Hotel California” and got a standing ovation for that song from literally representatives from the whole world, and it kind of dawned on me the global impact that song has had. You know, you go, “OK, write this song, we make a record, we put it out, we go on tour” and you hear people say, “Oh, I was down in Mexico at this bar and I heard them playing ‘Hotel California’ ” -- but until that moment I didn’t really realize how widespread that song had become. And, you know, it was a really pleasant surprise.

FOX: Well, I’ve got to ask, do you still have that cassette, the original copy?

FELDER: I do. As a matter of fact, I transferred it to digital about six, seven months ago. I was digging back through a bunch of my old cassettes, 'cause like I said, I’d written all these tracks ... like the song “Heavy Metal” was actually a song I wrote for “The Long Run” record that never got finished. And so when I got invited to look at the movie of “Heavy Metal,” I went, “Oh, I’ve got this great guitar track, it all these harmony guitars on it and stuff, and I said, “I bet if I just re-wrote the lyrics for “Heavy Metal” on top of this track, it would work. I went in the studio, re-recorded the whole thing, and put it out, and it was, like, one of those kind of appropriate tracks that goes with the video and it did really well. So I was just looking back through and listening to a bunch of my cassettes before they completely degenerate, and at the same time I was transferring them into Pro-Tools in a digital format, but there it was. It was the original demo for “Hotel California,” and it was remarkably similar to the final end product.

FOX: That’s amazing.

FELDER: Yeah.

FOX: Now how did your involvement with Styx and Foreigner come about for the "Soundtrack of Summer" tour?

FELDER: You know, I had worked with Styx, I guess one of the first times was an Alice Cooper benefit in Phoenix. Every year he had a thing thing called Christmas Pudding where he raises money for this foundation where they built an after-school educational program to keep kids off the streets and they teach them music and dance and help with their homework, all that stuff. Alice is an amazing guy when it comes to that kind of work. So every year he has this fundraiser and I got invited over to sit in and play a couple of songs at the Dodge Theater there in Phoenix, I guess it’s like a 5,000-seat hall or something. Styx was on the bill, and I said “Well, I don’t have a band.” Alice said, “I bet these guys would work with you.” So I sat down with (Styx guitarist) Tommy (Shaw) and showed him the harmony on “Hotel California,” and we did a quick soundcheck rehearsal, and that night we did like, “Life in the Fast Lane,” “Hotel California,” two or three songs with Styx backing me up -- which was just unbelievable. It was like, “You know, you guys are really good! If you ever need a gig let me know.” (laughs) And Tommy and I became fast friends after that. I put together a benefit show here in L.A. for the Soweto Center for the Performing Arts, which was for the victims of Katrina. I guess that was about eight or nine years ago. I called Tommy who was doing the Shaw/Blades thing, had those guys come, Alice came over and sang with his band. Gilby Clarke was on the show. Dennis Quaid and his band were on the show. David Foster and some of his people were on the show. Just put together a really great show of different rock and roll bands, and raised a bunch of money for the victims of Katrina, and then, “Hey, Tommy, that was kind of fun, let’s go grab a dinner.” And the next thing I know, when he’s in town we’re going out and doing stuff, and seeing them play and going to dinner. And then when I was writing for the “Road to Forever,” I had two songs that I'd written lyrics for that were OK, I just wasn’t really knocked out by the lyrics that I’d written, and so I called Tommy just on the wild chance that he may be off the road with Styx, because they do like 150 shows a year, they’re just nonstop, and he just happened to be in town. I said, “Hey, would you just come over and listen to these lyrics that I’ve written and give me your opinion, just kind of put a different ear on it.” He said, “Oh, those are great, that’s fine.” I said, “What would you do with some of these lyrics?” So he and I sat down and we started re-writing some of the lyrics and we set up a mike and sang the choruses for them. It sounded great, and the next thing I know those lyrics are going on the record and Tommy’s vocals are going on the record. You know, we actually wrote, in three days, we wrote three songs. We wrote another song, “Heal Me,” together, and we wrote “Wash Away” and the third song, which sounded remarkably like Crosby, Stills and Nash -- and Tommy was writing it for “The Great Divide” and it was too kind of Southern California instead of country for his record, he wanted more honest country-bluegrass stuff on his record. Anyway, I may use that with his blessing on my next record. It’s a great song, and maybe I’ll get Crosby, Stills and Nash to sing it with me, so we’ll see.

FOX: So do you have plans for a new record right away?

FELDER: I am constantly in the process when I’m driving down the freeway in L.A. singing into my iPhone or sitting on an airplane flying somewhere writing lyrics with headphones on listening to a track with this great lyric program, a songwriter’s program called MasterWriter, where you can put a track, an mp3, into this program, you can play it and write lyrics on top of it, back it up, you know, it’s kind of all controlled from one little thing. It’s created by a guy named Barry DeVorzon, up in Santa Barbara, who’s a great string composer and songwriter himself -- and he wanted to be able to get audio and text and rhyming dictionaries into one program, so it’s a blessing really for a songwriter to be able to have that program. There’s Gary DeVorzon’s ad. (laughs) Anyway, I’m constantly working, whether it’s on the road, even if I’m watching television, I’ll sit with an electric guitar and just kind of tinker around as I’m watching it. But if I hear a score in the background, if I hear something going on in the background, whether it’s an orchestral part, I’ll rewind it on my DVR and I’ll sit and try to figure it out and work it out. So, I’m constantly working, I have all these odds and ends in bits and pieces of lyrics and guitar licks and tracks and stuff. In August I plan on trying to take a couple of weeks and sit down with that task, sort through them and start building the demos for these song ideas. Last record, “Road to Forever,” I had 27 song ideas pretty much finished. I culled it down to 16, went into the studio and recorded those 16 songs, finished them and produced them, and then just before we went to final mastering of the manufacturing the CDs and the artwork, I get a call from the management company and they say, “Well, iTunes wants an exclusive single. Oh, and Amazon needs an exclusive song, and, oh wait, Japan wants an exclusive song, and Europe and Australia want an exclusive song, too.” So I had to pull four songs off the original release of “Road to Forever” and only put out 12 songs. And so I said, “Here’s four great songs that no one ever heard.” So this spring I decided that we should repackage that, put all the songs back on that are no longer exclusive songs and then release it again. So we re-released that, and that was the reasoning in doing that. And the lesson I’ve learned from that is instead of doing 16, I need to record 20 or 25 songs for all these exclusive, promotional things as well. I think you want to have at least 16 songs on a CD, you know?

FOX: That’s something you never had to worry about back in the old days.

FELDER: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I think my first solo record had eight songs on it. Yeah, if they’d have pulled four off for exclusive promotions, there’d only be four songs on it.

FOX: You’d have an EP.

FELDER: (laughs)

FOX: So, I’ve been wearing out your new album for the past week and a half, and it is the extended version so I have all those songs on there ...

FELDER: Oh, good.

FOX: And I’ve got to say, and maybe you’ll shake your head at this a bit, but I don’t know what I expected going in, but I was amazed at how much it reminded me of the Eagles. I think because a few members of your former band are so prominently recognized, you know, as the main songwriters and get the credit for that, but as I was listening to this, it kind of became clear to me that your “Fingers” print was all over those main Eagles records, even if it’s not credited in the songwriting per se.

FELDER: Well, you know, typically songwriting credits go lyrics and music. And that’s typically the way I worked with those guys in the past. I would write music beds. I would write complete introductions, a couple verses, chorus, bridge, you know, the song structure -- give them these music beds to write and in some instances, like “Victim of Love,” actually the melody. I had different lyrics on it, but I had written the melody, you can even hear the melody in the guitar introduction that’s on the track, right? And those two guys were primarily known for lyrics and vocals. Don Henley can’t really play piano, can’t really play guitar, he needs somebody to provide him the music bed. (former Eagles guitarist) Bernie (Leadon) told me that as soon as I joined the band. He said, “You want to write with these guys, provide the music beds to sing on top of.” That’s how “Witchy Woman” happened, that was a Bernie Leadon track, and Henley liked it and wrote the lyrics on it and sang it. So I went, “OK, that’s my job. I’ll just keep feeding music beds to these guys.” Although I had my own melodies and lyrics, I withheld those until I was asked, “You have a melody for this?” And I’d sing 'em or show 'em the melody. And I think the songs I didn’t actually write the musical changes for, I didn’t get writers credit, but you’re right, there’s a heavy footprint, a ‘Fingers’ print as you called it, on a lot of those records that were partially my sound and my guitar arrangement -- that sort of stamp or signature stuff that was really so obviously missing from their last record that was put out. It changed, pretty much entirely, the sound of that band -- except for the lead vocals. I mean, you still recognize Don Henley’s voice. He’s got an incredible vocal in my opinion. He’s got probably one of the best rock and roll voices alive today. And very recognizable harmonies and that sort of stuff. But, you know, it shifted into something else, which is fine with me. Many people have told me that about ‘Road to Forever,’ that it sounds like an Eagles record, and I did not go out intending to make a record that sounded like an Eagles record -- it’s just what I sound like. (laughs)

FOX: Yeah, that was the point I was trying to get to. (laughs) And it’s my bad for maybe not realizing that before, but hearing this work for the first time, that’s the overwhelming thought I got was, “Oh, yeah, this makes sense.”

FELDER: Well, yeah, I mean Joe has got such a unique fingerprint, sound and style and way of playing and writing, you recognize Joe Walsh solo stuff more so than you recognize Joe Walsh in the Eagles stuff. You know what I mean? “Life in the Fast Lane” is probably the most successful Joe Walsh kind of Eagles song that he had a big footprint in. Other than that, you don’t hear a lot of Joe Walsh sound in the Eagles, you know what I mean?

FOX: Yeah.

FELDER: Sadly. To me I think it’s their loss ’cause Joe is such a talented guitarist and can do so much with their records, but for some reason he doesn’t.

FOX: So many songs on “Road to Forever” seem personal in nature, how cathartic was it to work through all that writing and get the whole project done?

FELDER: Well, a lot of the ideas and original concepts for those songs came out of the period that I was writing my autobiography -- when I was going back and reflecting on my entire life and experiences. Breaking up and divorcing from my wife of 29 years, and falling in love with her in the first place and breaking up and going through the trauma with the Eagles, just all of my life experiences. As a matter of fact, I think as an artist, most good art comes from real-life experiences that are reflected either in film, music, songwriting, art, painting, sculpture -- some way that people, other humans that have shared that same experience can see, recognize and resonate with. To me, that’s what an artist’s task is, to share those thoughts and insights in life and life’s experiences. So when I was writing this book -- I’m not a great writer, you know, I can write text and lay it out pretty well, I’m fairly literate that way, but emotionally it was a better release for me to go into the studio and write music. It’s just what I do. So I take all of those ideas and feelings and thoughts and express them in the initial songwriting and try to capture those feelings that I was dealing with and going through and recalling. So then you’ve got to make the decision, well, how personal of a record, how personal of a book do you want to publish. And for me, I’ve got nothing to hide. I’ve been who I am and experienced what I have in this world, and it should be for anyone that cares to take a look at it or hear it or read it or what not. I don’t pull any punches. I just lay it out there as I see it, and as I felt it. I think there’s a certain amount of bravery for an artist to do that, but, you know, if you’re timid and shy, you’re in the wrong business. (laughs) It’s not for the weak of heart or the faint of heart. I just laid it all out there, both in my book and in songwriting. It’s what I do now. I have no fear when it comes to being judged or ridiculed for something I’ve experienced. How can you fear that -- because it’s the truth of what happened?

FOX: Concerts, of course, are great anytime ... but do you find there’s a different vibe or a little different energy to be playing outside in the summertime as opposed to an indoor show at a different time of year?

FELDER: Well, to preface this answer, I’ve done a lot of outdoor summer festivals over the last 10 years. It’s not like my first rodeo whether it’s with the Eagles or with my solo band myself. I think there’s a difference in the scale or magnitude of the setting. Personally, I think those outdoor venues are great if you want to go and just have a party. If you want to go and sit and listen to stuff in a more acoustically tuned, higher-controlled environment, you need to be indoors. Indoors doesn’t mean in a hockey rink. It doesn’t mean a place that is primarily set up for sports or basketball or something. Most of those buildings don’t sound good. Some of them have addressed those issues lately, but they build them so they’re loud and stuff for the fans so they get a lot of energy and noise during the game, but it’s the wrong environment for music. So I think it depends on what you want to do. I love the outdoor festivals because they’re always like a big party. Everybody’s dancing, rocking and having a great time and just having fun. I like the indoor venues as well because everybody’s more comfortable, there’s usually seats -- and a lawn if you’re doing a shed or something like that -- and the acoustics are usually much better because the facility has been designed for audio live performances (rather) than a hockey rink or something like that. So I think they both have their pros and cons. If you want to see an act in an intimate setting then you should go to an indoor venue. If you want to go and rock ’n’ roll and have fun and be outside, then you should go to an outdoor festival.

FOX: I know we’re running out of time, but just one more question. So, in summary, what was it like, as you look back, being in one of the greatest bands ever? I’m just wondering, did you ever really enjoy it or were you kind of always looking over your shoulder?

FELDER: From the day I started playing music when I was 10, till today, I’ve loved playing music. Absolutely, it’s the most fulfilling, rewarding thing in my life. I’ve put up with starving on the streets of New York, literally not able to have more than 60 cents in my pockets to get on the train to go down and get a plate of yellow rice and black beans to fill my belly for a couple of days so that I could continue playing. I wound up moving from Boston to California in a beat-up old Volvo car with a U-Haul trailer on the back and I managed to save $600 working in the studios, playing music on the holidays and during dinner hour, and then playing in a live cover band at night until 2 in the morning and back in the studio at 9 o’clock, to get the money together to move out here. It’s not about the success, it’s about how much you love what you do. And I think whatever the conditions I would have to put up with, whether it’s the difficult times in a huge band or difficult times in a small band, starving, or driving across country with the whole world ahead  of me, you know, kind of on that wing-and-a-prayer kind of lifestyle -- it’s all done because I love playing music. And to this day, I still feel that way. I’ll put up with the best and the worst to be able to do it. Does that answer your question?

FOX: Perfectly! Thank you so much for your time.

FELDER: All right, Doug. Take care.

To read the newspaper story that came from this interview, which includes quotes by Tommy Shaw regarding the thrill of playing "Hotel California" with Felder every night on the "Soundtrack of Summer" tour, click HERE.

Passing my own shadow by Lou Gramm's backstage door

Lou Gramm, former Foreigner frontman, will appear in Springville on June 7,

It’s nearly impossible to be a stranger to the work of former Foreigner
frontman Lou Gramm.

Gramm — who will appear in concert June 7 at the Spring Acres Arts Park as
the headline event of Springville’s annual Art City Days celebration — was one of the defining voices in rock during the late 1970s and ’80s. He was a co-writer on most of Foreigner’s solid gold catalog, which includes rocking radio staples such as “Feels Like the First Time,” “Cold as Ice,” “Hot
Blooded,” “Double Vision,” “Dirty White Boy,” “Head Games,” “Urgent” and “Juke Box Hero” among many others.

Being a rock music aficionado at heart, Gramm’s work has brought me much
enjoyment over the past 36 years. Having seen him in concert a half-dozen
different times during that span, I feel like I’ve got his career bracketed.
In fact, my first and last concert experiences with Gramm were both
extremely memorable — for reasons that could not be more completely
opposite.

The first time I saw him, I didn’t even have a seat and was escorted out of
the venue, whereas the last time I was summoned out of my seat by an usher
and escorted backstage to personally meet with Gramm.

See what I mean?

Foreigner broke in early 1977 when “Feels Like the First Time” started
climbing the charts, introducing a brand new band to rock radio listeners.
The song opened with a catchy guitar riff that immediately caught my
attention and Gramm’s powerful voice cut through the mix right with the
opening line: “I would climb any mountain, sail across a stormy sea ... ”
As a radio listener, sometimes you hear something new and just innately —
and immediately — recognize that there is a little something extra special
going on. That happened to me as I instantly latched onto “Feels Like the
First Time” and promptly went out and picked up Foreigner’s debut album.
What a fantastic record it was! While it may have been short on actual hits,
in comparison to the band’s later albums, I would match that first Foreigner
record up song-by-song with any subsequent release by the band. To this day,
album tracks like “Long, Long Way From Home,” “Headknocker,” “Starrider,”
“The Damage is Done” and “At War With the World” remain some of my favorite
Foreigner songs as the needle on my record player wore deep grooves into my
vinyl copy of the record from countless listens over the years.

That summer, Foreigner came through town — I lived in Los Angeles at the
time — on the band’s debut tour and headlined a show at the Greek Theatre, a
venerable outdoor amphitheater nestled in the hills of Griffith Park. For
some unfathomable reason to me now, my friends and I did not purchase
tickets — perhaps, as Gramm would later sing in “Juke Box Hero,” “it was a
sold-out show” — but instead decided to try and sneak into the concert.
Being surrounded by hills, trees and brush, it was somewhat of a fun
challenge at the time to surreptitiously earn your way into the amphitheater
crowd by virtue of crawling under a perimeter fence on the surrounding
hillside and working your way through the bushes and trees — or as we called
them “cover” — while evading a cadre of flashlight-toting guards who had
been specifically deployed to roam the area and catch miscreants like us
before we could stealthily slither into the amphitheater and lose ourselves
in the ticket-carrying crowd.

It was like a glorified game of “Capture the Flag” — except instead of some
meaningless piece of cloth, our mission was to experience a great night of
entertainment.

At the Foreigner show, however, it was the guards who won. We spent much of
the show maneuvering our way around the hill trying to remain undetected as
Foreigner blasted through its set, providing a rocking soundtrack to our
night’s adventure. Late in the show, we finally made it to the rear
amphitheater wall and jumped down into the venue. Unfortunately, our
movement caught the eye of an usher, who rushed over and made the collar.
It just so happened, however, that security chose to walk us out directly in
front of the stage while leading us out. As fate would have it, Foreigner
had chosen this exact time to launch into “Feels Like the First Time.” I can
still picture the scene: Gramm was front stage center belting out the
vocals, his long, curly hair flying in all directions. He was also playing a
tambourine, which at one point he let fly behind him, so that it soared
through the air, landing back near the drum set.

As far as concert moments go, that has remained a transcendent one for me,
the raw power of the music, the thrill of the performance, and the temporary
up-close view combined with a growing anxiety of what might happen to us
next. As it turned out, the security guard simply led us out the front
gates, where we hung around listening to the rest of the show.

Fast forward 30 years later, literally to the week, and I was sitting in my
seat at Sandy Amphitheater watching Sam Payne work the crowd in the warmup
slot and getting ready for a headline performance by the Lou Gramm Band in
2007. An usher walked up to me and asked, “Are you Doug Fox?” After my
tentative affirmative, he informed me that Gramm would like to meet with me
backstage. I had been attempting to set up an interview with Lou in the days
before the show, but had given up on the idea when no firm details had ever
been arranged.

So a friend and I were escorted backstage and downstairs to a sitting room
where I was able to enjoy a 15-minute pre-show interview with the delightful
Mr. Gramm. We even shared a brief laugh when I told him of my experience at
the Greek Theatre three decades earlier.

Upon leaving, I could almost swear I passed my own shadow by the backstage
door.

I can’t wait for another trip through the past when Gramm, a veritable “Juke
Box Hero,” takes the stage in Springville.

I had the chance to interview Gramm recently in advance of the Springville show. We discussed his recent induction, along with his Foreigner cohort Mick Jones, into the Songwriters Hall of Fame; his brand new autobiography, "Juke Box Hero: My Five Decades in Rock 'N' Roll;" the surprising reaction he sometimes gets from audiences; his memories of being in Salt Lake City for a show in 1999 the day a tornado struck downtown; and my very first Greek Theatre concert experience with Foreigner.

 Here is the full interview:

LOU GRAMM: Hi, Doug.

DOUG FOX: Hey, Lou, how are you doing today?

GRAMM: Very well, thank you. How about yourself?

DF: Doing great. Hey, it’s a privilege to talk with you again.

GRAMM: My pleasure.

DF: I very much enjoyed reading your book and some sections, of course, clearly stand out than others, but I really loved the detail that was provided. Like you mentioned at one point getting the chance to meet Tom Seaver. And one thing I hadn’t known about you all these years was what a great baseball fan you were. I totally related to that, seeing as how you got the opportunity to do that and meet somebody like that who you’d followed their career and their work had had an important place in your life, that’s kind of what I enjoy about having the chance to talk with you, as someone whose music has been somewhat the soundtrack to my life all these years. So it’s a great opportunity.

GRAMM: Well, thank you. I appreciate that a lot.

DF: Now you’ve got a lot going on right now, obviously with the new book, the summer tour dates and also being inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame — is this as busy as you’ve been over the past few years?

GRAMM: It really is, and it’s kind of diverse because between in-stores, and selling the book and autographing it, sometimes doing a few songs acoustically, and then the Songwriters Hall of Fame will entail Mick and I to perform together for the first time in over 10 years, and then touring, we’ve got new management and a new booking agent, so that’s more or less on the upswing. It’s a busy summer and I’m kind of liking it for a change.

DF: Right. Now your work has always pretty much been recognized by the fans, even right from the very first album, but it’s great to see it actually being recognized now by the industry at large. What does it mean to you personally to have you and Mick inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame?

GRAMM: I think it’s huge. If you’ve ever looked at a list of people who belong and are a part of that special club, it includes some amazing, amazing people — and it’s such an honor to be part of them. I take it very seriously, and it’s very special.

DF: I think this one is kind of special because it’s kind of the writing partnership, you and Mick. Almost all of the great writing partnerships, when you look at them, there’s come a point where it’s kind of splintered due to tension or whatever, and I wanted to get your thoughts on why that may be. I imagine it’s a process where one is so personally invested in their ideas and whether they’re listened to or not, or tweaked or dismissed, it’s kind of hard to relate to that. What’s your take on that in how things have played out in Foreigner?

GRAMM: Yeah, when people write songs together, you look for that spark of creativity and then the ability to take that spark and flesh it out and make it something not only with the good parts that every song should have but parts that react and interact with each other to make it not only musically exciting but lyrically either incredibly contagious or endearing, you know? Although Mick and I over the years have had our ups and downs, and we’ve kind of gone our separate ways now, I still have a great deal of respect for him as a songwriter and a musician.

DF: Right.

GRAMM: And we did speak to each other for the first time about three weeks ago for the first time in over 10 years. It was very relaxed and a friendly conversation. I think the two of us and the house band are going to perform a couple songs at the Hall of Fame induction, so we’re going to have to rehearse a little bit. I’m looking forward to that and to performing.

DF: So you hadn’t talked to Mick in over 10 years, I’m wondering what was the first thing you said to him when you called him?

GRAMM: “Congratulations on your induction.”

DF: OK, and was he surprised to hear from you?

GRAMM: I think he was. He was taken aback and he said, “Yeah, same to you.”

DF: Did he know it was you calling at the very first, like, had you left a message first or anything?

GRAMM: No, I didn’t leave a message first. I think he did recognize the voice and was a little surprised that it was actually me on the other end.

DF: So things progressed very nicely between you two from there?

GRAMM: Right away we invited each other’s families to the other’s houses, because he’s been through some health issues of his own. He seems to be getting stronger. If nothing else it’s going to be a fun reunion.

DF: Have you decided what songs you’ll be playing yet?

GRAMM: We did, but I’m not going say yet. OK? (laughs) I’m not just saying that to you, I’m saying that to everybody who asks.

DF: (laughs) Well, I’m mainly asking because I happened to see an interview with Mick the other day where he said you’d talked about playing “Juke Box Hero” and “I Want to Know What Love Is.” (laughs)

GRAMM: Oh, he’s stoning you.

DF: I just wondered about “I Want to Know What Love Is” because obviously there’s some animosity and disagreement between the two of you over the production of that song and whatever. I’m wondering, when you sing it, does that come into at all or do you just have to be in a totally different place and mindset emotionally to be able to pull that off?

GRAMM: Yeah, I think I have to shut out all of those tender spots and sing the song in the spirit that it’s meant to be sung.

DF: Jumping to your book now, which I very much enjoyed reading ...

GRAMM: Thank you!


DF: I’m sure there were sections of your book that were difficult for you, not just to revisit and discuss and evaluate, but which ones did you find the most difficult to delve back into?

GRAMM: I think my drug and alcohol abuse, and my operation. Those two especially were tough to submerge myself into even for the book.

DF: All right, now dealing with your addiction, the thing I thought that was most interesting about how you handled that was some of your explanation for how that occurred. I think people, you know, when we think about rock bands and partying, that kind of goes hand in hand, but your take on it I thought was different in that it wasn’t so much that that was just the expected lifestyle or anything, but it really kind of was prompted because of the loneliness you felt on the road and the guilt from being away from your family.

GRAMM: Yeah, it wasn’t really party time ... I was hurting.

DF: And that’s, I think, a view that isn’t necessarily what people equate when they think about it. That’s why I found that part especially insightful.

GRAMM: That’s 100 percent true, and as strange as it sounds, that’s what I did for years.

DF: Now, a lot of the rock bands I followed in my youth and throughout my life have kind of gone through similar things, you see a lot of them talking about similar things now. I was just wondering, do you ever have contact with any of the younger rock bands today about some of these things. You’d almost think they could look ahead and learn from some of those who have gone through these things before.

GRAMM: You know, I haven’t had the opportunity to talk one-on-one with anybody from this generation’s bunch of new bands — I think that would be like my father trying to tell me not to go into music as a profession.

DF: Or not to go to the Rolling Stones concert?

GRAMM: (laughs) That’s right. It would be something that I would listen to and absolutely do the opposite. So, I think maybe if any of these younger groups are inclined to read the book, they could see a little bit about themselves without a one-on-one lecture from the likes of me.

DF: Now, I’m totally intrigued by the whole Black Sheep story, how you literally were coming off the highest of highs with that band and within two days the dream was pretty much taken away from you. Were it not for one slip on the ice there might never have been a Foreigner but everyone might know Black Sheep.

GRAMM: That’s a real strong, strong possibility.

DF: Obviously you must still sit back and in your mind ask the question, “What if?”

GRAMM: I do periodically, but I don’t try and dwell on it. But it is one from time to time that crosses my mind and I do ask that question.

DF: The one thing that’s good is you have through the years had the opportunity to go back and work with many of the members of that band still, so that’s got to be fun.

GRAMM: Yep, absolutely.

DF: Now the list of those who have successfully made the transition from drummer to frontman is probably not very long ...

GRAMM: There’s a few (laughs) ...

DF: Did you learn from anybody in that regard or did you cut your own path?

GRAMM: I cut my own path because at the time I put the sticks down and came up front, there wasn’t really anybody to compare that to. There was Genesis, but Phil was still on the drums I think. And the same thing with Henley.

DF: Yes.

GRAMM: I’m trying to think of who else ...

DF: When I was thinking of this question, those were the exact two that I thought of.

GRAMM: Yeah.

DF: And I remember Phil because I saw him on the “And Then There Were Three” tour in 1978, so he was still fairly new in that role. So he had made the move out front but he didn’t have the type of stage presence like you did. And, you know, the same can be said for Don Henley.

GRAMM: They didn’t look uncomfortable, but they looked a little bit like they weren’t sure what to do with themselves.

DF: Exactly. But you didn’t seem to have that problem.

GRAMM: I had my frontman heroes and fortunately had tapes of them live to turn to. For instance, Steve Marriott, Paul Rodgers, people like that. Even though Steve had a guitar he really was a frontman. Paul Rodgers was an incredible frontman for the band Free. I don’t know — I did not steal anything, but I borrowed, and fairly soon became pretty comfortable.

DF: It’s interesting to me that late in the book you mentioned that you’d been in touch again with Ian McDonald and Al Greenwood.

GRAMM: Yes.

DF: How were you able to patch things up with them after their dismissal from the band?

GRAMM: I think it was just a matter of time that had gone by, and I had hoped that would understand why things were done the way it ended up — and I don’t even know that they do. But there is a friendship there, and I’m grateful for it.

DF: You once quoted your father as saying, “Life is simple,” so I’m curious as you’ve had this chance with this book project to not only look back on your long career but also to evaluate where you are in life right now and what you have to look forward to, which phrase best describes your current place: “cherry red” or “midnight blue”?

 GRAMM: (Pause) I think midnight blue. It’s not bright and brash cherry red. It’s cool, soothing and straight-ahead dark blue.

DF: Is there a time in your life when it changed from one to the other?

GRAMM: I think when I became born again, for sure, when I went to Hazelton and went to rehab and got my life on the straight and narrow, and put my addiction and the trouble in my life that I couldn’t handle in His hands, and pay attention to the things that I could deal with. Slowly but noticeably I became a little more tolerant. I didn’t need to control a situation. I didn’t need to make sure that my input noticed. It was a little more in God’s hands. ... And I could live with whatever came to be. It didn’t affect my ambition, but if the outcome was different than I projected then I wouldn’t beat myself up about it.

DF: That’s a great outlook. You’ve had a lot of shows in Salt Lake and the surrounding area over the years, but do you happen to remember the show in 99 when the tornado hit earlier that day?

GRAMM: I certainly do. I remember I was in the Holiday Inn and there was a farm equipment kind of event going on directly across the street. They had a huge tent with tractors and all sorts of things in there, and the hotel was full to the brim. People were mingling in the tent and everything and I was watching TV, and I saw a little thing go across the bottom of the screen that said, “Tornado warning.” And I looked out the window and off in the distance the sky was black — in the middle of the day, late morning. And I kept an eye on it, but I started watching the TV again, the next thing I knew I was seeing little particles of everything around striking my window. I knew exactly what that was. I grabbed my wallet and my keys and ran to the bathroom, you know, you’re supposed to stay in a room within a room? I did that, and just as I went walking in there, there was a knock on the door and it was the hotel management and the police saying to go down the fire stairs and meet on the loading docks at the back of the hotel. So I did that. But I peeked out the window before I left and I could see that there was a car tipped over, the tent was in little shreds, about 4x2 feet flying all over the place. The farm equipment was just scattered. When I got to the loading docks I noticed there was dump truck, completely turned on its top. And our tour bus had a hole in the back window that went in one side and went out the other side.

DF: Were you surprised the show still went on that night?

GRAMM: Yeah. We got in our bus and within two blocks of the tornado it was calm and sunny and people were shopping and had no idea what was going on.

DF: Amazing. I just wanted to ask you, do you still get the same thrill out of performing live that you always have?

GRAMM: I do. I definitely do. You know, there’s a certain point now when people could be very thrilled and excited, and if we’re on our game we could really turn the place on its ear. But then there’s times where we’re pushin’, and I know we’re sounding good and a song will end in a big way — and when the song ends you can hear the crickets. I don’t know if that’s God tapping me on the shoulder saying, “You’re getting old, you don’t belong on stage anymore.’ I’m not sure what that means, but it certainly knocks your legs out from under you.

DF: Let me tell you my take on that. As somebody whose been a fan for a long time and has seen this happen to groups. I think where I’ve seen this happening, a lot of time it’s outdoor performances in the summer where they sell season tickets.

GRAMM: Right.

DF: And so the people buy season tickets and they’re not necessarily fans of every band, but yet they still go because by buying the season tickets they get the best seats. I’ve seen this happen to a few bands, and they put on a great performance and there’s like no reaction because a lot of the people in the front, they’re not there for that specific person.

GRAMM: Exactly.

DF: And I always regret when I see that.

GRAMM: Yeah, it could make us push and try a little harder or it could make us just kind of go, “Oh, let’s do the next song and to hell with them” you know? A lot of times when we do “the hell with them” we have our best show. Because we’re not trying so hard to please or entertain, we’re more or less playing inward. And sometimes (that produces) some of the best and most creative ensemble work and solo work because there’s no pressure. It just flows out of us.

DF: Right — well just know that there’s people out there it does mean something to.

GRAMM: Yeah, I know that. It’s a little strange sometimes but, you know, you take the good with the bad.

DF: I know we’re running out of time so I’ll be quick, I just wanted to let you know that I remember the very first time I saw you in concert, it was at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles on your very first tour.

GRAMM: Yeah, that was a great place.

DF: And the thing was, I think it was sold out, I didn’t have tickets — we did one of the “Tree People” things where you try and sneak in through the hills ...

GRAMM: (Lots of laughter.)

DF: So we could hear most of the concert, but we got to the amphitheater right before the end, we thought, “Oh, we’ve got to get in.” And we jumped in, but we got caught. But the thing I always remember, and it was a great benefit, was the security guards walked us out right in front of the stage, literally right in front as you started playing “Feels Like the First Time.”

GRAMM: They paraded you out.

DF: Yeah, it was like the perp walk. (laughs) But I remember you being right up there and you had your long hair flowing around all over and you were playing a tambourine. And you even threw the tambourine back behind, back toward the drum set. It’s like that moment is indelibly marked in my mind.

GRAMM: How cool.

DF: It’s always been a great experience for me even though that’s the only part of the show I actually got to see.

GRAMM: I bet. Did you leave after that?

DF: No, we stayed right outside the venue so we could hear the rest of the show! But that’s like one of my favorite concert moments.

GRAMM: Wow, that’s amazing.

(At this point, the voice of the moderator cuts in to end interview.)

GRAMM: Thanks, Doug, that was really enjoyable. Thank you.

DF: Thanks a lot. Have a good day.


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Journey's Deen Castronovo: A Tonal 'Eclipse' of the Heart

Journey features, back left to right, Deen Castronovo, Neal Schon, Jonathan Cain, Ross Valory and, front, Arnel Pineda.

The first time I interviewed Deen Castronovo, back in 2008, the Journey drummer had the audacity to thank me for taking the time to talk with him.

"It's usually Neal and Jonathan and Ross that get all the interviews," he said, referring to Journey's original contingent of guitarist Neal Schon, keyboardist Johnathan Cain and bassist Ross Valory, "and Arnel [Pineda, vocalist] and I are just kind of like the little guys in the back. I'm just the drummer ... who wants to talk to the drummer? I appreciate you giving me the chance to talk to you, bud. I appreciate it."

I wish more rock stars were as gracious and unjaded as Castronovo.

When I got the opportunity in interview him again, this time in preparation for Journey's U.S. "Eclipse" tour — featuring nearly 50 dates in a package with Foreigner and Night Ranger (for my review, and a photo gallery, from the tour-opening show in Salt Lake City, click HERE) — I reminded Castronovo of his "nobody ever wants to talk to the drummer" quote from three years ago.

"And you know what, dude? It still rings true," he said. "But I'm just glad everybody is allowing me to do this stuff, cause most of the other guys, I don't know if they're into it or not, but I love it, dude. I really do. I just love doing this kind of stuff. It's great!"

Click HERE to read my story published in The Daily Herald based on the Castronovo interview. But, as always, there were many more highlights from the interview that wouldn't fit in the main story. Here they are:

On which songs from the new album, "Eclipse," were translating best to the stage during the band's European tour in June and early July:

CASTRONOVO: I’ll tell you, “City of Hope” is big, huge. That one’s coming off great. Another one is “Chain of Love.” People really love “Chain of Love” because it’s really hard driving. And we were surprised, we were doing “Tantra” and, boy, in Europe they were going nuts for that tune. So it was great, bro. All the songs are good and I love playing them all, but those three, I think the crowd really dug into those.

On the difficulty of adding new songs into the live performance when Journey has so many hits -- which the band refers to as "The Dirty Dozen":

CASTRONOVO: Well, you know, we have to do those and that usually takes up about close to an hour. So we’ve got, really, about half an hour to play the new stuff. We’ve got enough time to do those. We’ve been able to at least fit three or four in, it’s been great.

On the past couple tours, Castronovo has been featured singing lead on a few select songs -- and, incredibly, he also sounds a lot like former vocalist Steve Perry. Does he still get the chance to sing lead on this tour?

CASTRONOVO: You know, I’ve turned into the second stringer, the second-string quarterback, which is great. I’ve always been the second-string guy, what Neal calls the secret weapon. So if Arnel ... usually Arnel doesn’t have bad nights, he’s usually pretty spot on, but if he’s fatigued, after like maybe three shows in a row, or two shows in a row, or he’s got a cold or something, they call me up. They’re like, “You’re going to do ‘Keep on Running’ tonight and ‘Mother, Father.’ ” It just gives him a little bit of a break and he doesn’t have to kill himself. So I’m the second-stringer, and I don’t mind at all.

On this year's touring package, which also includes rock stalwarts Foreigner and Night Ranger:

CASTRONOVO: Well, the cool thing is both bands are the soundtrack to my teen years, which is awesome. I mean, we toured with Foreigner in '99 and it was an honor to tour with Mick Jones and Lou Gramm, when he was singing. And, of course, Night Ranger, I’ve got a long history with Night Ranger. Their lighting director was also Journey’s lighting director years back and he also managed the metal band I was in called Wild Dogs. And we would always go backstage and we would meet these guys and hang out, and it’s going to be great. And of course, wait until you hear Foreigner, they’re just incredible. They sound amazing, they really do. The new singer, well, he’s not new, he’s been there a while, Kelly Hansen, is flawless, flawless nightly. And Mark Schulman, the drummer ... he’s a Portland boy, from Portland, Oregon, where I’m from. So he’s a hometown boy, so it’s great to just hang out with him, it’s just fantastic.

More on Night Ranger and Foreigner:

CASTRONOVO: The funny thing is with Night Ranger, I know all their songs, and sometimes, you know, if they feel they want to do it, I’ll go up and I’ll play “Sister Christian” with them while Kelly [Keagy, drummer] goes out and sings lead. It’s awesome because I grew up with that stuff. And, of course, Foreigner, like I said, the soundtrack ... when I was 13 I remember when “Hot Blooded” came out. I can remember listening to that on the way to school one morning, it was like, “Oh, this is bad. I love it. This is awesome!” So, yeah, I’m a huge fan, dude.

On how he was a music fan first and has maintained that attitude and enthusiasm over the years:

CASTRONOVO: Dude, I’ve learned so much. I mean, I learned from those guys. Kiss was my Beatles. They really were. They were the reason I became a musician. You know, Journey, I learned all my drumming skills from Steve Smith. I mean, those were the guys I listened to. Steve Perry, of course, the voice, man, to me, one of the greatest singers of my generation. There’s not very many guys that can get near that guy. So I’m a huge fan, it’s pathetiic!.[laughs]

On his work with former Van Halen members Sammy Hagar and Michael Anthony in the short-lived project Planet Us:

CASTRONOVO: Oh, man, working with Sammy and Michael Anthony was a dream come true. A dream come true. And I got to tour with Van Halen when I was with Hardline, years ago, back in '92 ... we got to tour and did some shows opening for them, and got to sit down with Alex, what a sweet man. I mean an iconic drummer, pretty amazing.

On the amazing staying power of the song "Don’t Stop Believin’ ":

CASTRONOVO: It’s incredible, bro. I mean, we were in Sweden doing the Peace and Love Festival, 53,000 people, we start doing “Stop Believin’ ” — the crowd goes ballistic, right? OK, soon as we start the [sings] “Strangers ... waitin’ ” ... the crowd is bouncing. You know they do that European bounce? It was awesome! I’ve seen that before, but not 53,000 people doing it. "Don’t Sop Believin’. " It gave us chills. It was just incredible!

On why he thinks a band like Journey isn’t in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame:

CASTRONOVO: You know, my opinion and whether it’s valid or not, because I really don’t know much about it, but maybe because Steve [Perry] isn’t in the band anymore. That’s the only thing I can think of, man. Come on, 90 million records worldwide and they don’t want to put us in? That’s the only thing I can think of. “Well, Steve Perry’s not there, so who cares?” That’s very possible. I have no idea. Maybe another scenario is Journey was never popular with Rolling Stone magazine and the press. We were panned constantly, incessantly, you know? And I think the fans and the audiences have proven those people wrong. You know, so maybe there’s a little egg on those people’s faces and they’re like, “Well, forget it anyway.” Who knows? I don’t know the truth, but we should be in there. Put it this way, I shouldn’t ... I shouldn’t be in there. I have no part of the Journey legacy with the exception of I bought every record and I went to every show in Portland. But, I mean, those three gentlemen, Steve Smith, all five of them, Smith, Ross, Neal, Jonathan, Steve they should be there. Bottom line. Bottom line. And I’ll be in the audience checking it out! [laughs]

On opening the U.S. tour with Foreigner and Night Ranger in Salt Lake City:

CASTRONOVO: It’s going to be great. It’s a beautiful city. I mean, Salt Lake City’s gorgeous. One of the biggest memories I have of Salt Lake, we were supposed to play, I believe, if I’m not mistaken, the Delta Center, and the first tornado ever, ripped the Delta Center’s roof off. I was in my hotel room watching it happen. And when I saw the tornado rip the damn roof right off — it was awesome! It was a bummer, but ... and the funniest thing was Foreigner’s bus, they were there as well, the windows got blown out of their buses. Yeah, they were sleeping on their bus waiting for their hotel rooms ... the windows got blown out, so they had to go up to their hotel room, so they got them in early. That’s the fondest memory, or the biggest memory I have of Salt Lake.

[Editor's note: Journey was actually scheduled to play Franklin Covey Field with Foreigner on the day of the tornado in July 1999. The outdoor show, after much consideration, did go on as scheduled.]