Passing my own shadow by Lou Gramm's backstage door

Lou Gramm, former Foreigner frontman, will appear in Springville on June 7,

It’s nearly impossible to be a stranger to the work of former Foreigner
frontman Lou Gramm.

Gramm — who will appear in concert June 7 at the Spring Acres Arts Park as
the headline event of Springville’s annual Art City Days celebration — was one of the defining voices in rock during the late 1970s and ’80s. He was a co-writer on most of Foreigner’s solid gold catalog, which includes rocking radio staples such as “Feels Like the First Time,” “Cold as Ice,” “Hot
Blooded,” “Double Vision,” “Dirty White Boy,” “Head Games,” “Urgent” and “Juke Box Hero” among many others.

Being a rock music aficionado at heart, Gramm’s work has brought me much
enjoyment over the past 36 years. Having seen him in concert a half-dozen
different times during that span, I feel like I’ve got his career bracketed.
In fact, my first and last concert experiences with Gramm were both
extremely memorable — for reasons that could not be more completely
opposite.

The first time I saw him, I didn’t even have a seat and was escorted out of
the venue, whereas the last time I was summoned out of my seat by an usher
and escorted backstage to personally meet with Gramm.

See what I mean?

Foreigner broke in early 1977 when “Feels Like the First Time” started
climbing the charts, introducing a brand new band to rock radio listeners.
The song opened with a catchy guitar riff that immediately caught my
attention and Gramm’s powerful voice cut through the mix right with the
opening line: “I would climb any mountain, sail across a stormy sea ... ”
As a radio listener, sometimes you hear something new and just innately —
and immediately — recognize that there is a little something extra special
going on. That happened to me as I instantly latched onto “Feels Like the
First Time” and promptly went out and picked up Foreigner’s debut album.
What a fantastic record it was! While it may have been short on actual hits,
in comparison to the band’s later albums, I would match that first Foreigner
record up song-by-song with any subsequent release by the band. To this day,
album tracks like “Long, Long Way From Home,” “Headknocker,” “Starrider,”
“The Damage is Done” and “At War With the World” remain some of my favorite
Foreigner songs as the needle on my record player wore deep grooves into my
vinyl copy of the record from countless listens over the years.

That summer, Foreigner came through town — I lived in Los Angeles at the
time — on the band’s debut tour and headlined a show at the Greek Theatre, a
venerable outdoor amphitheater nestled in the hills of Griffith Park. For
some unfathomable reason to me now, my friends and I did not purchase
tickets — perhaps, as Gramm would later sing in “Juke Box Hero,” “it was a
sold-out show” — but instead decided to try and sneak into the concert.
Being surrounded by hills, trees and brush, it was somewhat of a fun
challenge at the time to surreptitiously earn your way into the amphitheater
crowd by virtue of crawling under a perimeter fence on the surrounding
hillside and working your way through the bushes and trees — or as we called
them “cover” — while evading a cadre of flashlight-toting guards who had
been specifically deployed to roam the area and catch miscreants like us
before we could stealthily slither into the amphitheater and lose ourselves
in the ticket-carrying crowd.

It was like a glorified game of “Capture the Flag” — except instead of some
meaningless piece of cloth, our mission was to experience a great night of
entertainment.

At the Foreigner show, however, it was the guards who won. We spent much of
the show maneuvering our way around the hill trying to remain undetected as
Foreigner blasted through its set, providing a rocking soundtrack to our
night’s adventure. Late in the show, we finally made it to the rear
amphitheater wall and jumped down into the venue. Unfortunately, our
movement caught the eye of an usher, who rushed over and made the collar.
It just so happened, however, that security chose to walk us out directly in
front of the stage while leading us out. As fate would have it, Foreigner
had chosen this exact time to launch into “Feels Like the First Time.” I can
still picture the scene: Gramm was front stage center belting out the
vocals, his long, curly hair flying in all directions. He was also playing a
tambourine, which at one point he let fly behind him, so that it soared
through the air, landing back near the drum set.

As far as concert moments go, that has remained a transcendent one for me,
the raw power of the music, the thrill of the performance, and the temporary
up-close view combined with a growing anxiety of what might happen to us
next. As it turned out, the security guard simply led us out the front
gates, where we hung around listening to the rest of the show.

Fast forward 30 years later, literally to the week, and I was sitting in my
seat at Sandy Amphitheater watching Sam Payne work the crowd in the warmup
slot and getting ready for a headline performance by the Lou Gramm Band in
2007. An usher walked up to me and asked, “Are you Doug Fox?” After my
tentative affirmative, he informed me that Gramm would like to meet with me
backstage. I had been attempting to set up an interview with Lou in the days
before the show, but had given up on the idea when no firm details had ever
been arranged.

So a friend and I were escorted backstage and downstairs to a sitting room
where I was able to enjoy a 15-minute pre-show interview with the delightful
Mr. Gramm. We even shared a brief laugh when I told him of my experience at
the Greek Theatre three decades earlier.

Upon leaving, I could almost swear I passed my own shadow by the backstage
door.

I can’t wait for another trip through the past when Gramm, a veritable “Juke
Box Hero,” takes the stage in Springville.

I had the chance to interview Gramm recently in advance of the Springville show. We discussed his recent induction, along with his Foreigner cohort Mick Jones, into the Songwriters Hall of Fame; his brand new autobiography, "Juke Box Hero: My Five Decades in Rock 'N' Roll;" the surprising reaction he sometimes gets from audiences; his memories of being in Salt Lake City for a show in 1999 the day a tornado struck downtown; and my very first Greek Theatre concert experience with Foreigner.

 Here is the full interview:

LOU GRAMM: Hi, Doug.

DOUG FOX: Hey, Lou, how are you doing today?

GRAMM: Very well, thank you. How about yourself?

DF: Doing great. Hey, it’s a privilege to talk with you again.

GRAMM: My pleasure.

DF: I very much enjoyed reading your book and some sections, of course, clearly stand out than others, but I really loved the detail that was provided. Like you mentioned at one point getting the chance to meet Tom Seaver. And one thing I hadn’t known about you all these years was what a great baseball fan you were. I totally related to that, seeing as how you got the opportunity to do that and meet somebody like that who you’d followed their career and their work had had an important place in your life, that’s kind of what I enjoy about having the chance to talk with you, as someone whose music has been somewhat the soundtrack to my life all these years. So it’s a great opportunity.

GRAMM: Well, thank you. I appreciate that a lot.

DF: Now you’ve got a lot going on right now, obviously with the new book, the summer tour dates and also being inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame — is this as busy as you’ve been over the past few years?

GRAMM: It really is, and it’s kind of diverse because between in-stores, and selling the book and autographing it, sometimes doing a few songs acoustically, and then the Songwriters Hall of Fame will entail Mick and I to perform together for the first time in over 10 years, and then touring, we’ve got new management and a new booking agent, so that’s more or less on the upswing. It’s a busy summer and I’m kind of liking it for a change.

DF: Right. Now your work has always pretty much been recognized by the fans, even right from the very first album, but it’s great to see it actually being recognized now by the industry at large. What does it mean to you personally to have you and Mick inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame?

GRAMM: I think it’s huge. If you’ve ever looked at a list of people who belong and are a part of that special club, it includes some amazing, amazing people — and it’s such an honor to be part of them. I take it very seriously, and it’s very special.

DF: I think this one is kind of special because it’s kind of the writing partnership, you and Mick. Almost all of the great writing partnerships, when you look at them, there’s come a point where it’s kind of splintered due to tension or whatever, and I wanted to get your thoughts on why that may be. I imagine it’s a process where one is so personally invested in their ideas and whether they’re listened to or not, or tweaked or dismissed, it’s kind of hard to relate to that. What’s your take on that in how things have played out in Foreigner?

GRAMM: Yeah, when people write songs together, you look for that spark of creativity and then the ability to take that spark and flesh it out and make it something not only with the good parts that every song should have but parts that react and interact with each other to make it not only musically exciting but lyrically either incredibly contagious or endearing, you know? Although Mick and I over the years have had our ups and downs, and we’ve kind of gone our separate ways now, I still have a great deal of respect for him as a songwriter and a musician.

DF: Right.

GRAMM: And we did speak to each other for the first time about three weeks ago for the first time in over 10 years. It was very relaxed and a friendly conversation. I think the two of us and the house band are going to perform a couple songs at the Hall of Fame induction, so we’re going to have to rehearse a little bit. I’m looking forward to that and to performing.

DF: So you hadn’t talked to Mick in over 10 years, I’m wondering what was the first thing you said to him when you called him?

GRAMM: “Congratulations on your induction.”

DF: OK, and was he surprised to hear from you?

GRAMM: I think he was. He was taken aback and he said, “Yeah, same to you.”

DF: Did he know it was you calling at the very first, like, had you left a message first or anything?

GRAMM: No, I didn’t leave a message first. I think he did recognize the voice and was a little surprised that it was actually me on the other end.

DF: So things progressed very nicely between you two from there?

GRAMM: Right away we invited each other’s families to the other’s houses, because he’s been through some health issues of his own. He seems to be getting stronger. If nothing else it’s going to be a fun reunion.

DF: Have you decided what songs you’ll be playing yet?

GRAMM: We did, but I’m not going say yet. OK? (laughs) I’m not just saying that to you, I’m saying that to everybody who asks.

DF: (laughs) Well, I’m mainly asking because I happened to see an interview with Mick the other day where he said you’d talked about playing “Juke Box Hero” and “I Want to Know What Love Is.” (laughs)

GRAMM: Oh, he’s stoning you.

DF: I just wondered about “I Want to Know What Love Is” because obviously there’s some animosity and disagreement between the two of you over the production of that song and whatever. I’m wondering, when you sing it, does that come into at all or do you just have to be in a totally different place and mindset emotionally to be able to pull that off?

GRAMM: Yeah, I think I have to shut out all of those tender spots and sing the song in the spirit that it’s meant to be sung.

DF: Jumping to your book now, which I very much enjoyed reading ...

GRAMM: Thank you!


DF: I’m sure there were sections of your book that were difficult for you, not just to revisit and discuss and evaluate, but which ones did you find the most difficult to delve back into?

GRAMM: I think my drug and alcohol abuse, and my operation. Those two especially were tough to submerge myself into even for the book.

DF: All right, now dealing with your addiction, the thing I thought that was most interesting about how you handled that was some of your explanation for how that occurred. I think people, you know, when we think about rock bands and partying, that kind of goes hand in hand, but your take on it I thought was different in that it wasn’t so much that that was just the expected lifestyle or anything, but it really kind of was prompted because of the loneliness you felt on the road and the guilt from being away from your family.

GRAMM: Yeah, it wasn’t really party time ... I was hurting.

DF: And that’s, I think, a view that isn’t necessarily what people equate when they think about it. That’s why I found that part especially insightful.

GRAMM: That’s 100 percent true, and as strange as it sounds, that’s what I did for years.

DF: Now, a lot of the rock bands I followed in my youth and throughout my life have kind of gone through similar things, you see a lot of them talking about similar things now. I was just wondering, do you ever have contact with any of the younger rock bands today about some of these things. You’d almost think they could look ahead and learn from some of those who have gone through these things before.

GRAMM: You know, I haven’t had the opportunity to talk one-on-one with anybody from this generation’s bunch of new bands — I think that would be like my father trying to tell me not to go into music as a profession.

DF: Or not to go to the Rolling Stones concert?

GRAMM: (laughs) That’s right. It would be something that I would listen to and absolutely do the opposite. So, I think maybe if any of these younger groups are inclined to read the book, they could see a little bit about themselves without a one-on-one lecture from the likes of me.

DF: Now, I’m totally intrigued by the whole Black Sheep story, how you literally were coming off the highest of highs with that band and within two days the dream was pretty much taken away from you. Were it not for one slip on the ice there might never have been a Foreigner but everyone might know Black Sheep.

GRAMM: That’s a real strong, strong possibility.

DF: Obviously you must still sit back and in your mind ask the question, “What if?”

GRAMM: I do periodically, but I don’t try and dwell on it. But it is one from time to time that crosses my mind and I do ask that question.

DF: The one thing that’s good is you have through the years had the opportunity to go back and work with many of the members of that band still, so that’s got to be fun.

GRAMM: Yep, absolutely.

DF: Now the list of those who have successfully made the transition from drummer to frontman is probably not very long ...

GRAMM: There’s a few (laughs) ...

DF: Did you learn from anybody in that regard or did you cut your own path?

GRAMM: I cut my own path because at the time I put the sticks down and came up front, there wasn’t really anybody to compare that to. There was Genesis, but Phil was still on the drums I think. And the same thing with Henley.

DF: Yes.

GRAMM: I’m trying to think of who else ...

DF: When I was thinking of this question, those were the exact two that I thought of.

GRAMM: Yeah.

DF: And I remember Phil because I saw him on the “And Then There Were Three” tour in 1978, so he was still fairly new in that role. So he had made the move out front but he didn’t have the type of stage presence like you did. And, you know, the same can be said for Don Henley.

GRAMM: They didn’t look uncomfortable, but they looked a little bit like they weren’t sure what to do with themselves.

DF: Exactly. But you didn’t seem to have that problem.

GRAMM: I had my frontman heroes and fortunately had tapes of them live to turn to. For instance, Steve Marriott, Paul Rodgers, people like that. Even though Steve had a guitar he really was a frontman. Paul Rodgers was an incredible frontman for the band Free. I don’t know — I did not steal anything, but I borrowed, and fairly soon became pretty comfortable.

DF: It’s interesting to me that late in the book you mentioned that you’d been in touch again with Ian McDonald and Al Greenwood.

GRAMM: Yes.

DF: How were you able to patch things up with them after their dismissal from the band?

GRAMM: I think it was just a matter of time that had gone by, and I had hoped that would understand why things were done the way it ended up — and I don’t even know that they do. But there is a friendship there, and I’m grateful for it.

DF: You once quoted your father as saying, “Life is simple,” so I’m curious as you’ve had this chance with this book project to not only look back on your long career but also to evaluate where you are in life right now and what you have to look forward to, which phrase best describes your current place: “cherry red” or “midnight blue”?

 GRAMM: (Pause) I think midnight blue. It’s not bright and brash cherry red. It’s cool, soothing and straight-ahead dark blue.

DF: Is there a time in your life when it changed from one to the other?

GRAMM: I think when I became born again, for sure, when I went to Hazelton and went to rehab and got my life on the straight and narrow, and put my addiction and the trouble in my life that I couldn’t handle in His hands, and pay attention to the things that I could deal with. Slowly but noticeably I became a little more tolerant. I didn’t need to control a situation. I didn’t need to make sure that my input noticed. It was a little more in God’s hands. ... And I could live with whatever came to be. It didn’t affect my ambition, but if the outcome was different than I projected then I wouldn’t beat myself up about it.

DF: That’s a great outlook. You’ve had a lot of shows in Salt Lake and the surrounding area over the years, but do you happen to remember the show in 99 when the tornado hit earlier that day?

GRAMM: I certainly do. I remember I was in the Holiday Inn and there was a farm equipment kind of event going on directly across the street. They had a huge tent with tractors and all sorts of things in there, and the hotel was full to the brim. People were mingling in the tent and everything and I was watching TV, and I saw a little thing go across the bottom of the screen that said, “Tornado warning.” And I looked out the window and off in the distance the sky was black — in the middle of the day, late morning. And I kept an eye on it, but I started watching the TV again, the next thing I knew I was seeing little particles of everything around striking my window. I knew exactly what that was. I grabbed my wallet and my keys and ran to the bathroom, you know, you’re supposed to stay in a room within a room? I did that, and just as I went walking in there, there was a knock on the door and it was the hotel management and the police saying to go down the fire stairs and meet on the loading docks at the back of the hotel. So I did that. But I peeked out the window before I left and I could see that there was a car tipped over, the tent was in little shreds, about 4x2 feet flying all over the place. The farm equipment was just scattered. When I got to the loading docks I noticed there was dump truck, completely turned on its top. And our tour bus had a hole in the back window that went in one side and went out the other side.

DF: Were you surprised the show still went on that night?

GRAMM: Yeah. We got in our bus and within two blocks of the tornado it was calm and sunny and people were shopping and had no idea what was going on.

DF: Amazing. I just wanted to ask you, do you still get the same thrill out of performing live that you always have?

GRAMM: I do. I definitely do. You know, there’s a certain point now when people could be very thrilled and excited, and if we’re on our game we could really turn the place on its ear. But then there’s times where we’re pushin’, and I know we’re sounding good and a song will end in a big way — and when the song ends you can hear the crickets. I don’t know if that’s God tapping me on the shoulder saying, “You’re getting old, you don’t belong on stage anymore.’ I’m not sure what that means, but it certainly knocks your legs out from under you.

DF: Let me tell you my take on that. As somebody whose been a fan for a long time and has seen this happen to groups. I think where I’ve seen this happening, a lot of time it’s outdoor performances in the summer where they sell season tickets.

GRAMM: Right.

DF: And so the people buy season tickets and they’re not necessarily fans of every band, but yet they still go because by buying the season tickets they get the best seats. I’ve seen this happen to a few bands, and they put on a great performance and there’s like no reaction because a lot of the people in the front, they’re not there for that specific person.

GRAMM: Exactly.

DF: And I always regret when I see that.

GRAMM: Yeah, it could make us push and try a little harder or it could make us just kind of go, “Oh, let’s do the next song and to hell with them” you know? A lot of times when we do “the hell with them” we have our best show. Because we’re not trying so hard to please or entertain, we’re more or less playing inward. And sometimes (that produces) some of the best and most creative ensemble work and solo work because there’s no pressure. It just flows out of us.

DF: Right — well just know that there’s people out there it does mean something to.

GRAMM: Yeah, I know that. It’s a little strange sometimes but, you know, you take the good with the bad.

DF: I know we’re running out of time so I’ll be quick, I just wanted to let you know that I remember the very first time I saw you in concert, it was at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles on your very first tour.

GRAMM: Yeah, that was a great place.

DF: And the thing was, I think it was sold out, I didn’t have tickets — we did one of the “Tree People” things where you try and sneak in through the hills ...

GRAMM: (Lots of laughter.)

DF: So we could hear most of the concert, but we got to the amphitheater right before the end, we thought, “Oh, we’ve got to get in.” And we jumped in, but we got caught. But the thing I always remember, and it was a great benefit, was the security guards walked us out right in front of the stage, literally right in front as you started playing “Feels Like the First Time.”

GRAMM: They paraded you out.

DF: Yeah, it was like the perp walk. (laughs) But I remember you being right up there and you had your long hair flowing around all over and you were playing a tambourine. And you even threw the tambourine back behind, back toward the drum set. It’s like that moment is indelibly marked in my mind.

GRAMM: How cool.

DF: It’s always been a great experience for me even though that’s the only part of the show I actually got to see.

GRAMM: I bet. Did you leave after that?

DF: No, we stayed right outside the venue so we could hear the rest of the show! But that’s like one of my favorite concert moments.

GRAMM: Wow, that’s amazing.

(At this point, the voice of the moderator cuts in to end interview.)

GRAMM: Thanks, Doug, that was really enjoyable. Thank you.

DF: Thanks a lot. Have a good day.


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Styx: Welcome to "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" show

As an audience member, it was an uncomfortable moment.

The arena lights were out and the opening introductory film, providing important contextual background to Styx's impending special concert production, suddenly ground to a halt, with the gigantic video board blinking immediately to black.

At first, the delay served as a humorous reminder that no amount of preparation for a live performance can prevent technical stuff, inevitably, from happening at the most inconvenient time. But as the shutdown stretched toward the four-minute mark, those well-versed in Styx history undoubtedly had one of the band's most infamous moments cross their minds.

But this was not Chicago, circa 1981, and this was not the opening reel to the elaborate "Kilroy Was Here" tour -- the incident where everyone in attendance was sent home grumbling without a show when the projection failed. Instead, this was Las Vegas, 2012, the first of two "Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" concerts at the Pearl Theatre at the Palms Resort. And nobody would be leaving without a rock show -- video accompaniment or not.

Sure enough, after about a five-minute delay, the intro film started again, jumping ahead to the depiction of a teenage boy, alone in his room in 1977, scanning through a stack of albums and pulling out "The Grand Illusion." (How many of us discovered Styx, and many other bands, in this same exact way?) He removed the record and carefully placed it on a turntable, dropping the needle on Track 1, as Styx began the actual concert by launching into the title track.

I watched the band with intent curiosity that first song, looking for any telltale sign of stress, frustration or exasperation following the technical delay -- and certainly, any such reaction would be understandable to some degree. But there was absolutely none. Not a single trace. In fact, the band looked as confident and composed starting a show as any of the previous 29 times I'd seen them.

One of those previous times, incidentally, was the night before, when the band held a full rehearsal for the two special-format shows, which had not been performed live together since their original limited Eastern run in the fall of 2010. In rehearsal, the band was all business during "The Grand Illusion" portion of the run-through. There was a 10-minute-or-so interruption for a live TV interview segment (video clip from rehearsal above and below). Then the band was back to work on "Pieces of Eight" -- where everyone seemed to loosen up as the songs rolled along. Keyboardist Lawrence Gowan strolled the stage, and out into the empty arena, during one song, playfully grabbing his crotch while doing an exaggerated impression of a rapper. At another point, most of the band broke out impressions of "The Sloppy Swish" -- a "Saturday Night Live" skit maneuver, which cannot adequately be described, but should be Googled. Tellingly, the music was still played flawlessly despite the addition of the awkward "Sloppy Swish" choreography.

While "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" double-album production was not performed West of the Mississippi until those two November Vegas shows, the project itself has had a huge impact in Styx's live performances ever since -- in that several of the deeper album cuts from those two records have elbowed their way into the band's nightly sets on a rotating basis. These songs have provided a welcome nod to the hardcore fans, sprinkled in as they are with the band's obligatory greatest hits, and given shows some spontaneous variety.

Another tangible fan benefit of the project was a fantastic DVD (as well as a double audio CD), recorded live on Nov. 9, 2010, at the Orpheum Theater in Memphis. The DVD not only excellently captures the production -- complete with special video content exclusive to the double-album show -- but it also captures the band in peak form, honed by years of constant touring. Not coincidentally, the DVD will make its broadcast premiere tonight on Palladia, followed by a Feb. 1 showing on VH1 Classic. Fans should check local listings for air times for both programs.

"This is the most magnificent piece of video we've done," said James "JY" Young in a press release marking the broadcast premiere of the DVD. "Our two biggest-selling albums performed live in their entirety, all captured in state-of-the-art high definition is something we're extremely proud of. The collective skill set of the people involved in this project rivals NASA in its heydey."

One of my favorite deep album cuts has always been "Man in the Wilderness," a song that was resurrected by this project and, thankfully, has become a staple of the live set ever since. Watching the DVD for the first time, I was struck by guitarist Tommy Shaw's introduction to the inspiring song -- which only piqued my interest in learning even more about it. A short time after that, I had occasion to discuss "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" tour and DVD with Shaw, and he also graciously provided even more insight into not only the genesis of "Man in the Wilderness" but the emotional investment it takes to be able to pull it off live on a nightly basis.

This informal email interview took place in February of 2012 -- but I've been sitting on it in hopes of tying it in with a potential Western leg of "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" tour. At this point, I'm not sure if or when that may ever occur -- and the band has mentioned the possibility of pulling the production out randomly for special occasions, such as the two Vegas shows in November. As Shaw mentions at the end of this interview, the idea is out there in the ether ...

That being the case, it seems somewhat appropriate to release this brief interview in conjunction with the broadcast premieres of the DVD.

Enjoy!

DOUG FOX: Way back when we first talked about this, before the tour, you mentioned that you were skeptical of the idea when it was first presented. Looking back at that time, to when you actually performed the tour and recorded the DVD, how did your feelings change and/or what caused your feelings to change?

TOMMY SHAW: I'm not sure my feelings have changed. Live video shoots always take away from the actual performance. You get in a groove and it's all purely about the show, then you bring in the video crew and it throws the whole thing off kilter -- there's no getting around it. That's me as the band member talking. But I realized very early on that this was something that deserved being preserved for posterity, so it was me who pushed for it early on. JY, as producer, was saddled with the most time-consuming part of seeing the whole thing through, so all credit for how well it came out goes to him and the amazing group he assembled to bring it home.

DF: Obviously, with the band's vast experience of live performing, you probably go into any project with a certain level of expectation of how it's going to go over. Was there an aspect to this show -- whether it be a certain song, a group of songs, a production value or anything else -- that really surprised you in how it was received night after night?

SHAW: It was a complete unknown until the first time we performed it on stage before a live audience. You've seen our shows -- there is an arc, you know, how we like it to flow. Because we were playing the songs in the order they appeared on the original albums, that was off the table. We would be playing songs many fans might never have heard before unless they listened to the entire albums. What we did know in our hearts was that those albums were rock solid from beginning to end and had such a good flow, it could be enjoyed on the first listening. And that's what happened when we performed it live, thank goodness.

DF: On the DVD, I was intrigued by your introduction to "Man in the Wilderness" and how it was sparked after you opened for Kansas one night in Detroit, and then you turned around and wrote it the next day. I'm wondering if you can go into a little more detail on that. First, I've always loved that song, and know that it has been a fan favorite all these years, but it has a certain imagery to it that has always been intriguing. What was it specifically about what you experienced at the Kansas show and its merging with your own experiences that led to "Man in the Wilderness." And, did you really write it all the next day -- did it come that quickly and completely?

SHAW: I kneeled behind the back seat of the auditorium to experience Kansas for the first time. Epic! Unlike any presentation of rock music I'd ever experienced. To go that big opened up all kinds of ideas in my mind, and the next time I was alone with my acoustic, the song more or less unfolded itself. The lyrics were there in rough form right away. Think about it -- to go from playing in a bowling alley lounge to the kinds of venues we were beginning to play on a regular basis, and being away from home all the time, it was strange at first to be standing out there getting that kind of response from so many people who didn't really know me or how I was feeling at the time, etc. My brother was a tank commander in Quang Tri during the war in Vietnam. It was a very difficult job and took its toll on his spirit for a long time. He's a lot like me, and I could never imagine what it must have been like or how I would have handled it. Then to have it all be such a senseless chess game played by old men in Washington, D.C. -- it was worthy of a mention in the song.

DF: In regards to "The Grand Illusion" -- did you already have the album's theme in mind or a grouping of songs that fit the theme? In other words, regarding "Man in the Wilderness," did you already have "The Grand Illusion" theme in mind when you wrote it?

SHAW: Dennis [DeYoung] had the verses and choruses to the song early on and played it for us. It spoke to all of us and what we were experiencing as members of the same band, as our popularity grew and we started to make some money. We were a very tight group musically at that time, and it was all for one and one for all -- this wonderful moment in the life of any band. So we all began to pour our hearts into it like one big "AMEN!" Although there are credits for who wrote what, it was more the credit for who wrote the essence of the songs because everyone contributed unabashedly to each other's songs. The same can be said for the "Pieces of Eight" album. That's what sets those two apart from albums that came later. Again, the prime season of innocence in the life of a band.

DF: Of the songs the band had never played before live prior to this tour -- or rarely played, for that matter -- which one is your favorite?

SHAW: My favorite song to sing is "Man in the Wilderness." The only way to do that song is all in. There's no easy version of it that I can imagine. So when I'm done, I have to come back from that wonderful place it takes me. Every time. It's hard to explain, but for example, I have to really concentrate to play whatever the next song is because I often don't feel like I've completely come back. I feel a little bad for that because I have gunked up that next song on more than one occasion as I come back to the present moment. To me, there's no better live experience than getting lost in a song. Then there's the song "Pieces of Eight." [It] never got much attention or airplay but it is such an iconic Styx song content wise. Beautiful melody and lyrics, then treated with TLC as we put it together. We spent a lot of time arranging that song, especially the middle section, and when it resolves to the three-part- harmony at the end, I want to salute. It always holds its own.

DF: Oh -- and for all of us out here in the West, what are the chances this tour will be revisited again, and brought to the West?

SHAW: JY and I were just discussing this subject, and our manager brought it up a couple of days later. No plans for now, but the idea is out there in the ether ...

Note: I originally talked to Tommy, JY, Lawrence and Todd prior to the start of "The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" tour. That story can be read HERE.

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Ice as nice: James Young recalls Styx's first Utah visit

Styx guitarist James Young in concert at USANA Amphitheatre in 2011. (Doug Fox)

Looking back, it's obvious that guitarist James "JY" Young served as my initial portal to StyxWorld in a couple key ways.

The first real Styx song I fell in love with was "Miss America," the lead track on Side II of "The Grand Illusion." On first listen in 1977, I was somewhat lulled into complacency by the droning keyboard intro. The stunning payoff, however, came with a punch to the gut of adrenaline as the song's main nasty guitar riff took over.

Yes, Styx had me at "You were the apple of the public's eye."

A few years later when I was at college, some like-minded, rock-loving dorm friends turned me on to the "Equinox" album. Is it any surprise that I was immediately drawn to "Midnight Ride," one of the most rocking Styx tunes ever put to vinyl?

Of course, both "Miss America" and "Midnight Ride" are powered not only by Young's lead guitar playing, but also by his vocals.

Jumping a couple decades into the future, when I was starting to get a bit more involved in music writing, Young became the first member of Styx I did an interview with. I remember mentioning my fascination with "Miss America" and "Midnight Ride" and Young saying, "Well, you must be one rocking dude" -- or something close to that.

With Styx's constant touring schedule, as well as several more in-depth side projects, I have had the opportunity to interview JY so many times that it would take a real mental fact-checking exercise to determine just how many. I've found each time interesting and engaging on its own merits.

With so much experience behind us, JY and I kind of have an unspoken agreement. He knows that I am somehow going to bring up "Midnight Ride" in the course of an interview, and I know that he will laugh but remain mostly non-committal about whether I will ever get the chance to see it played live again. That's how we roll.

A majority of this interview takes a look back at an early period in Styx history -- when "Lady" first became a hit in Utah and Styx played an infamous local show in Provo at a place called the Ice House in 1973. With Styx returning to Provo on Wednesday -- the first time since that 1973 show -- it provided a perfect opportunity to revisit those early days, not only with JY, but also with the local radio program directors who helped make "Lady" a hit more than a year before the song broke nationally. (To read that full story, click HERE.)

Young also talked about the resurrection of the band's well-received "Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight" show, which features both those albums being played in sequence and in their entirety. Following the Provo concert, the band will head to Las Vegas for two special performances of that show on Friday and Saturday. Check back for a review of that show next week.

As it turns out, the obligatory "Midnight Ride" reference spontaneously came early in our conversation this time around. JY is usually extremely prompt, so when his call came a bit more than five minutes late, it was a rare occurrence. Turns out a couple digits in my phone number were transposed. The innocent mixup left the door open for a "Midnight Ride" parry.

DOUG FOX: It’s not like you've never called this number before!

JAMES YOUNG: No, but usually I don’t call on cell phones. I may have it in my little Hewlett Packard Palm Top that’s vintage 1991 that I keep most of my most important secret information on because most of today’s geeks don’t know how to work it.

DF: Well, that’s probably where you have the decoded information of when “Midnight Ride” will appear in the setlist again, too.

YOUNG: (laughs heartily)

DF: We couldn’t have a conversation if I didn’t bring that up at least once!

YOUNG: Well, yeah, it’s very reinforcing to me and my voice, which I was struggling with for quite a while. Actually I went back and took some voice lessons and learned about the horrors of acid reflux and what it could do to your throat, so I’m still not ... proper rest is an important thing, shutting your mouth during the rest of the day is an important thing, and I allow Tommy [Shaw] that privilege because we are more dependent on his voice than mine, but unfortunately because I’m on the phone a lot and when it comes to showtime I’m just not the guy who sang “You Need Love” and “Midnight Ride.” I’m about a step, step and a half lower than that.

DF: But it sounds like you said you’re gradually getting back there.

YOUNG: Well, I think over the space of a couple of years I’ve absolutely regained — there’s better living through proper chemistry and then actually even diet has improved. I gave up Coca-Cola about nine months ago today, actually, January 28th, well, late January, roughly nine months ago today.

DF: So, if I’m understanding you correctly, in my eternal optimism, you’re telling me there’s a chance!

YOUNG: (laughs) So you’re saying there’s a chance!

DF: Exactly!

YOUNG: One in a million — so you’re saying there’s a chance! Jim Carrey’s great line. (laughs)

DF: That’s exactly right. As long as there’s that chance, I’ll continue hoping.

YOUNG: Oh, yeah.

DF: Where are you calling from today?

YOUNG: Lovely, we’ll call it Escanaba, Michigan, because you can actually find that on a map, but we’re about 20 miles west of there in a tiny little place called Harris in a Native American casino-type situation.

DF: That’s where you’re playing tonight?

YOUNG: Tonight and tomorrow, yeah.

DF: It’s funny, I checked out on the Internet some of your recent setlists, and it had one for a show, it said it was in the last couple days, but it had all these songs that I know there’s no way you could have possibly been playing. Well, like it had Babe in there, and an entire setlist of songs that I know somebody was just messing around.

YOUNG: Well, we have lately done “Castle Walls,” “Pieces of Eight” — but those aren’t the two you’re talking about.

DF: No, I mean, it had “She Cares,” “Half-Penny Two-Penny,” just a bunch of really obscure songs ... “Shooz” ...

YOUNG: Yeah, someone is dreaming there.

DF: Yeah. I figured that with the shows coming up in Las Vegas ...

YOUNG: We’re rehearsing the deep tracks there, yeah. We rehearsed “Lords of the Ring,” which is the toughest one.

DF: Yeah, I’ll ask you more about that later.

YOUNG: OK.

DF: But first of all, I know you’re fond of saying that if it wasn’t for flashbacks you wouldn’t remember much of the 70s ...

YOUNG: (Laughs)

DF: But I also know you’re the band historian.

YOUNG: Well, that’s a fun joke to get out of answering these questions, but I do save — they will have a “Hoarders” TV show about me at some point. But I can still sort of walk through all of the rooms in my house, but not quite.

DF: That would be some treasure trove, I imagine.

YOUNG: Well, who knows what kind of value some of that stuff’s going to have and there’s a memory attached to each one. I ran across something just yesterday, it was a photo from before Tommy was in the band. It was some sort of Styx ID and I looked like Lawrence’s son. Kind of sour-pussed and dark and long straggly hair and a beard. It’s fun to have that stuff to touch base with and what have you — but I know we’re going to talk about the past today and I’m ready!

DF: All right, excellent — because that’s especially why I wanted to talk to you, because I wanted to delve into what you remember about that first show in Provo. Even dating back to that first time we talked, I think it was in 1996, you brought up the history about how Provo was one of the original three cities where “Lady” first became a hit and how you’d driven out here in a rented motor home to play the Ice House. So with obviously the Provo show coming up again — and correct me if I’m wrong, as near as I can figure out this is the first show actually back in Provo since the Ice House show in ’73 — I know you played nearby Orem a few times.

YOUNG: OK, Orem we definitely played, starting in ’96, we were there two or three times.

DF: See that’s what I mean, you’ve got a good memory because I think it’s three times.

YOUNG: But going back to the heyday, I mean this is the thing I think that stands out, and we’ll get to Provo in a second, very few places were we able to sell out three arenas. Mostly in top 10 cities, I’m talking about Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, where you have that sort of population. Detroit was a place where we did three Cobo Halls at one point in time. St. Louis we probably did two arenas, Kansas City, places like that, and Dallas and Houston. But Salt Lake City on the “Paradise Theatre” tour, we did three shows at the Salt Palace. And I know in recent times, you know, actually I think it was when we released “Big Bang Theory” and they were tracking sales around the country and Los Angeles and Chicago were neck and neck — of course Los Angeles is bigger, so per capita, Chicago has always been our biggest, but the second-biggest per capita place for the sale of Styx music is Salt Lake City. It’s, basically, ‘Wow, all this is coming from that much less population base.’ So something about our music caught on in 1973. And we were managed by a guy in ’73 named Vince DePaul, who was married to one of Dennis DeYoung’s female cousins. And he understood the business on a local level and how to get work for a band and how to keep (them) performing, playing, whatever. But once we got a recording contract and stuff, he was kind of ill-equipped to cope with it. And when “Lady” out of the clear blue, with the release of our second LP, you know, all of a sudden we hear we’re getting airplay in Rapid City, South Dakota, Little Rock, Arkansas, and a place called Provo, Utah, which I’d never heard of before then, and KEYY radio, we didn’t have a proper national booking agent, and we didn’t have a lot of things organized about our career that major acts that were better represented had. Ultimately we parted company with him because his skill set, we all sort of felt, we thanked him for his service getting us where we got, but felt that he was an impediment to us going any further at all — but he took it upon himself to somehow find a way to get us booked in Utah, and that was the Ice House. I don’t know if we were the opening act there, but I know we played there early in the life of that club.

DF: So, when you first heard this, you didn’t have any idea where Provo was?

YOUNG: Well, my family, my dad was very much into taking long automobile trips with his wife and five children. In 1955, we drove all the way to California to see one of my uncles, and we got there, I think, just before Disneyland opened. We drove past it, but “It’s not open yet, we can’t get in there!” Then we drove up to San Francisco to see some relative on my mother’s side, and drove back home. This was with five kids in the car, in a ’55 Buick ... so I’m not geographically challenged, I know where things are, but the lesser cities of the great state of Utah were unbeknownst to me at that point in my life even though I was a college graduate and had traveled quite a bit. But, no, it was exciting to go far away and then see that sort of a response to our music when we’d been banging our heads against the wall in front of, maybe sold-out clubs, but we were still doing a lot of cover songs there and had a reputation in Chicago, and was sort of spread around the Midwest from our performances — but, you know, to go that far away, 1,500 miles ... it was a very exciting time for us in our development as a major league recording act.

DF: Right, and that’s what I was going to ask you about. At the time you traveled all the way out here, what was your road experience at the time? It sounds like you’d been doing shows around the Midwest, if I understood you correctly, but you had not been on a trip this far away?

YOUNG: No, we’d go places like Peoria, Illinois, and up to Milwaukee, over to Indiana, maybe over to Michigan, but at that point in time, I’m not sure. Because I was out of college and driving a cab part-time to make ends meet with the money we were making from performing, and I think Dennis and Chuck (Panozzo) still were teachers. Dennis was a music teacher and Chuck was an art teacher, so they still had full-time jobs up until, I think, the release of “Styx II.” And they may have kept them beyond that even. Some of that kind of limited what we did because reason and financial necessity sort of dictated, (laughs) “Don’t give up something you’ve worked your whole life for, that is a teaching degree and the way to work on something that may never come to fruition, financially for yourself.” And Dennis’s wife, who I know was interested in the future well-being of herself and her daughter, was very outspoken about it all. But I’m a little bit vague, I should have gone back because I know there’s this website, Styxtoury, which is not perfect, but it’s pretty close on a lot of things that went on way back when in terms of the shows we played. Have you ever seen that website?

DF: I might have in the past, but I’ll have to go back and look at it again.

YOUNG: But I think we did not stray far outside of a 200-mile radius of Chicago.

DF: OK. Can you elaborate a bit more on the actual road trip? I remember you telling me once it was during the oil embargo.

YOUNG: Well there was a couple of different trips that happened. The first one might have been during the oil embargo and I think Dennis was not feeling well, so he got on an airplane and John Panozzo and I decided we were just going to drive it back and drive it straight through. But that was clearly during the Arab oil embargo. We had an extra can of gas with us, which I think may not have been legal, but nonetheless we felt going through the mountains ... I think we got to Evanston, Wyoming, and realized we were going to run out, so we sort of fashioned a road map into a funnel and poured whatever we had left into the tank and managed to make it to a gas station somewhere. But that’s a slice of American history as experienced by two members of Styx in the middle of the mountains, going, “Are we out of our minds here, why are we doing this kind of a thing?” But being young enough and bull-headed enough to say, “We can do this!” So we just traded off, and had a wonderful steak in Kearney, Nebraska, and I’d driven much of the way, and then John Panozzo took it much of the way home ... 27 hours, with one steak dinner in the middle of that, and get back to Chicago.

DF: Those are the types of experiences that generally turn into good songs!

YOUNG: Uh, yeah!

DF: Do you have any memories of the actual show itself? I know that may be kind of difficult.

YOUNG: Well, I have a picture in my mind of the club — but it is vague — and what the audience looked like. But it’s very vague. I wish I could, but I can’t give you very much on that.

DF: That’s understandable — who knows how many thousands of shows later. What type of a setlist might you have been playing in those days? Not the order, but the typical songs.

The building that used to contain the Ice House, on 100 West in Provo. (Jim Mcauley/Daily Herald)

YOUNG: Well, my guess is we probably still would have been playing some covers at that point in time. We probably played a number of originals, but probably would have worked in something like “Whole Lotta Love” and some of the covers that really got a big reaction at that point in time, where people were amazed that those guys could sing as high as Robert Plant on that song, or what have you. “Aimless Lady” was one song that I sang, that we did from time to time, by Grand Funk. We were known for early on, Dennis, we would do the Sly and the Family Stone thing, and Dennis would go off into this feel-good rap and get the audience in a call-and-response kind of thing where he got the audience wound up and spoke to them — which seems to be somewhat at every stage of our career, he’s taken it upon himself to do that. Tommy even tells a story about how, because he was not in the band at that point in time, that they heard that Styx had this feel-good thing that really got the crowd going crazy, and he said all the club bands hated us because we weren’t stuck playing, you know, five sets a night, six nights a week in some bar until five in the morning or whatever it was. But when Tommy auditioned, “Midnight Ride” was actually the first song — I don’t know if you’ve heard that part of the story?

DF: Yeah, you’d told me that.

YOUNG: His band was broke up at that point in time and he was back playing a bowling alley in Montgomery, Alabama, kind of a thing just to make ends meet, whatever. And in his own mind, as he would tell it, “I’ve got to be part of this band. I’ve got to do this.” So, that feel-good thing was a big thing. “Whole Lotta Love” was one that comes to my mind.

(Telephone rings on his end) ...

YOUNG: Now I have another interview I’m supposed to do in like five minutes. Can I call you back after that?

DF: Sure.

YOUNG: Actually, I’m just calling The Arrow in Salt Lake City.

DF: Oh, OK.

YOUNG: And  then I’ll get right back to you.

DF: Fine, sounds great.

YOUNG: Hold on a second, we’ve got another couple minutes.

DF: I’ll keep my eye on the clock, but let me know for sure. ... As part of the story, I’m trying to track some people down who were actually at the show and get their reactions. I’ve talked to one person so far and he mentioned that one memory he has, of course, he’s familiar with the song “Lady” and that was the only thing he was familiar with going in, so that was kind of what he was expecting, but then he got to the show and he said it was a lot more rocking than he expected going in. That’s probably a lot of the material you were playing then.

YOUNG: Yeah, I’m having a hard time remembering what the actual setlist might have been, but I know when we were a club band we’d do a couple of sets so there had to be cover stuff in there. There may not have been that much covers, but if they had us play two sets, that’s something I couldn’t tell you. But we had two albums of material to draw from at that point in time, obviously because we’d recorded “Styx II.” But I’m sure there would have been some notable covers in there, like I said “Whole Lotta Love.” John Curulewski was there, he wrote “22 Years,” which is quite a rocking song. Our best thing, obviously, from “Styx I,” that we would have done, “Mother Nature’s Matinee,” we always did that one. I’m not sure if we did “Children of the Land” — those were the three originals off the first one. We may have done some of the covers that they made us do on that first record. We had material from the second record, “Father, Oh I Say” would have been a strong one I think we always played. “You Need Love” we would have played. We had two albums of originals to work from at that point, but I’ll bet there were certainly some covers in the set.

DF: OK. Was there a feeling after that that this might be a stepping stone to something bigger — not that the show was in Provo, but just that there was starting to be a demand in previously unenvisioned locales?

YOUNG: (laughs) Well there was great optimism, which lasted for a brief period of time until we put out “Serpent is Rising” and then, really, nothing happened at all. I remember Dennis saying to me at one point, “Well, J.Y., we’ve seen our heyday.” (laughs) And even for his sometimes pessimistic attitude, (I thought) “I think it’s a little early for that.” (laughs)

YOUNG: Let me call these other guys.

DF: OK, I’ll catch you after.

(Interview continues after Young calls back.)

DF: I guess it’s no stretch to say that Provo still holds a soft spot in Styx history?

YOUNG: Oh, tremendously. I mean, the first time, I can even remember back in my teenage years when myself as a musician got recognized in any way shape or form, those things sort of stay with you. The band that I had with my brother that was sort of a precursor to Styx, all those things, every little milestone that we had are kind of things that you’ll never forget. And particularly, Utah, which just is a unique place unto itself for a variety of reasons, yeah, and the trips back and forth that were filled with drama, all those things just kind of will always be with me.

DF: Just one final question on that because you had mentioned it — there have been rumors, some people have thought there was a second show, but I’ve been able to find no documentation on it.

YOUNG: Well, now that you’re saying that, it’s quite possible that there was not. I do remember there was another time where we were out in the — I swore that we drove back twice from Salt Lake City, but maybe I’m wrong about that. We’ve done some long drives along I-80, and in fact had an accident, it wasn’t a rented motor home actually, we had purchased, we actually owned one, but it should have had four tires on the back axle instead of two like a passenger van, because we overloaded that thing. (laughs) We brought back all kinds of Coors beer from Colorado, so we were at least as far as Colorado, but maybe we didn’t get ... and there was a famous story where Dennis was driving and we were supposed to be going north from Wyoming into the Dakotas — and so the fact that we were so far west, I thought we came back and played again, but perhaps we did not.

DF: Like I said, that rumor’s been out there ...

YOUNG: Well, I’m probably the one that started it! But I remember two long trips in that motor home and both coming east along I-80. Because there was one with John Panozzo and there was just two of us and the next one was when we had the accident, I think actually John Panozzo was ill. He couldn’t make the trip, so actually the guy that was our drum tech at that point in time sat in on the drums and he was in this vehicle when we had this accident. Mike Phillips — so Ricky Phillips wasn’t actually the first Phillips to be on stage as a member of Styx.

DF: But they’re not related?

YOUNG: No. At least not to my knowledge. You never know. Probably eight steps removed, maybe, who knows?

DF: Yeah, and I was surprised to find out that Ricky had lived in Salt Lake.

YOUNG: Ricky spent quite a long time in a band that was based in Salt Lake. He said they were incredibly talented guys but just kind of very much socially dysfunctional. One of them got arrested for some prank in a city in Nebraska or something, I don’t know. Spent a week in jail or something like that. (laughs) It’s kind of hard to schedule your life when guys don’t have enough sense to not get themselves tossed in jail for some stupid prank — an M-80, I think, in a bathroom in a restaurant that blew it up and caused all sorts of commotion.

DF: Yeah, you’ve got to at least be throwing TVs out of high rises ... you’ve got to get some mileage out of your bad pranks. (laughs) OK, moving back to the present — you’ll be immediately following up the Provo concert with the resurrection of “The Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight” shows in Las Vegas, how do you feel about revisiting that?

YOUNG: It was the hardest I think the band worked at rehearsing certainly since Ricky Phillips has been in the band. I mean, because Tommy and I had to go back and relearn things, and there’s things that we had never performed live so we had to figure out how to make them actually stand up on stage. “Superstars” was something we were always afraid of, but having four guys that can sing when you’ve got those long-block harmonies that kind of extend forever, that kind of fries my voice to do anything after that, and then I’m doing the rant that Dennis did on the original record, which completely fries my voice, so it’s kind of (in high voice) coming back and trying to sing the harmonies (in regular voice) was not really coming out too well. But we found a way to, with modern technology, to sort of have a keyboard on a certain vocal sounding pad to help reinforce that. There’s nothing on tape it’s technology as our friend here as well as having four singers instead of just three. But I love that show and it’s songs that I never thought we’d play live, we’re playing live. And the visuals behind it, my dear friend Steve Jones, who is a feature film producer and was an animation director before that, and he’s still an aspiring director, he teaches a class in film production actually at DePaul University now at a graduate level, but Steve’s always wanted to be a director and never quite gotten there, but he is the director of the visuals that are on the screen behind us that are part of that whole show. I like it because it’s kind of a junior Floydian presentation, it’s not simply a rock band and a sound system and moving lights, but there’s a whole additional production element there that I think is magical that goes along with the songs. I think it really takes the Styx live performance to another level and a lot of the tours we’ve done, the package tours where we can afford to bring that with us — because it’s expensive to have that video wall behind us and run it and another truck to drag it around and what have you, so whenever we get a chance to use it, particularly in this way, which I think we’ve done a marvelous job with this. I’m very proud of it and I encourage people to check it out. And if they can’t get down there, the DVD, particularly the 5.1 is amazing.

DF: I was going to say, speaking for myself from the perspective of someone who hasn’t seen that live show in person, I thought the DVD captured things extremely well.

YOUNG: (laughs) I’ve spent too much time post-producing it, I can’t bring myself to sit down and look at it. (laughs) Because I still see the flaws that we could have — “If we’d only had that camera shot from that angle this would be better!” But you’re always going to do that and that’s why people a lot of times they work as hard as they possibly can to make something as great as they can, and it’s impossible to ever completely step back from it. Maybe 10 years from now I’ll be able to do it. I’m still not ready for that.

DF: Well, the good thing is you get to break it out live every so often.

YOUNG: And that’s what we’re doing.

DF: And you did mention the visuals, and I think my favorite part is the guy sifting through the albums and pulling one out and putting it down on the turntable.

YOUNG: Well, that was Tommy’s idea, that my friend Steve did make that come to life.

DF: That really resonated with me because that’s how I kind of experienced my watershed Styx moment — when a friend pulled out “Grand Illusion” for the first time, dropped the needle on “Miss America” and said, “Check this out!”

YOUNG: Wow.

DF: And I’ve been checking it out for 35 years now.

YOUNG: (laughs) How ’bout that!

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Jack Blades: 'Look, dude, I'm a registered American, OK?'

Front left: Kelly Keagy, Eric Levy, Jack Blades, Joel Hoekstra and Brad Gillis of Night Ranger.

It was the summer of 1987 and the Lifestyles editor at The Daily Spectrum newspaper in St. George, Utah, was in the position of having to cut a deal.

I was fairly new to my gig as the sports editor there and had only a year under my belt in the daily newspaper business, and still quite unsure what my exact career path would be. The Lifestyles editor needed someone to cover a local Donny Osmond concert -- still a pretty important thing in that town in those days -- but she was scheduled to be out of town to attend a friend's wedding.

Suffice to say, she was getting no volunteers.

"I'll do it," I said, adding my one condition: That she also let me cover the Night Ranger concert that was coming up a few weeks later. The deal was beneficial to both parties. I loved Night Ranger ... and she didn't.

Since I was covering the show, I also got the opportunity to do an advance phone interview with Night Ranger bassist, vocalist and frontman Jack Blades. I remember nervously prepping for several days. The late-night interview, of course, turned out to be great fun -- I wish I still had a copy of it somewhere.

These days, I don't remember a whole lot about what was said during that initial interview, but one thing has always stuck with me. I found Jack amazingly down to earth, so I asked him how he balanced the demands of his crazy rock 'n' roll lifestyle with everyday life. He explained that all day he was Jack Blades the rock star, but there arrived a certain time each evening -- usually after a show -- where he reverted into just being Jack Blades the regular person. I always liked that analogy.

That chat with Jack was my very first rock-related interview. I parlayed that into a chance to shadow the band at the arena for a feature story on the typical day in the life of a rock band on the road -- getting glimpses into the band's pre- and post-show routines, and even a tour by guitarist Brad Gillis of the bus that would take the band up the road to its next scheduled date.
 
Some 25 years -- and hundreds of interviews/concerts later -- there's no question in my mind who got the better end of the Osmond-for-Night Ranger package story deal.

In my latest interview with Jack -- the rock star as it so happens since he called while the band was actually en route to the venue for a show in Atlanta a few hours later -- we discussed a variety of topics, ranging from his support of the U.S. troops -- the band's local appearance is a benefit concert for Operation Rebound on Sept. 11 -- to new music by Night Ranger and his Shaw/Blades side project with Styx guitarist (and former Damn Yankees cohort) Tommy Shaw.

But what really had Blades buzzing was his experience at the Republican National Convention, which ended the day before our interview on Aug. 31. Blades had already received a lot of blowback via social media for his decision to perform his new solo single, "Back in the Game," live at the convention and for supporting the GOP presidential ticket.

To say he remains perplexed by today's toxic political scene is an understatement.

"Look, dude, I'm a registered American, OK?" said Blades. "And what's with all the hating anyway?"

Well, read for yourselves ...

DOUG FOX: Well, I've got to say it really is a pleasure to speak with you again. Believe it or not, you were the first rock-related interview I ever did, and I was just figuring it out this morning and that was 25 years ago, so that's been a long time now.

JACK BLADES: Oh my ... it's nice to see we all still have a gig! (laughs)

DF: Yeah. It will be good to have you back in Utah again this year, I don't know if you remember but your very first show of 2012 was out in Wendover.

BLADES: You know, it was. And I can remember ... and I think it was like our second show or something like that was with Journey at (pause) ...

DF: Rio Tinto Stadium last year?

BLADES: Yeah, yeah, that was a great gig. I loved that. It was wonderful.

DF: I think that actually opened your tour last year.

BLADES: That's right. That opened the tour with us and Foreigner (and Journey). That was the beginning of the tour.

DF: My main gripe about that show was you didn't have more playing time.

BLADES: I know, I know. Well, hopefully when we come up and see you guys, coming up on this tour, we're gonna have more playing time.

DF: Yeah, I would imagine. Well, for starters tell me about your experience this week at the Republican National Convention, how did you enjoy that?

BLADES: Oh, yeah. Are you a Romney fan?

DF: Actually I am, yes.

Jack Blades performs "Back in the Game" at the GOP convention in Tampa, Fla.

 BLADES: Yeah, because he's from your neck of the woods. It was a wild experience. It's something I never, ever experienced. I mean all my life I've watched these things, I mean starting when I was about 9 years old in 1964 watching LBJ against, what was it, Goldwater or one of those kind of guys, watching on a black-and-white TV. And here I am, actually at a presidential convention, you know, and actually playing that ... it was bizarre. It was wonderful.

DF: Now Paul Ryan mentioned that his iPod playlist started with AC/DC and ended with Zeppelin, which I thought was cool, but I've got to think that had he wanted to touch down in the middle of the alphabet, you know he's got to have Night Ranger on there as well, doesn't he?

BLADES: I'm thinking that "D" is Damn Yankees and "N" is Night Ranger. I'm convinced of that. There's no question about that. (laughs) So, yeah, look, man, for me it was like an honor to play at this thing and I don't care what persuasion you are, whether you're a Republican or Democrat, you know what, man? We're all Americans, and that's the whole thing to be involved and sort of engaged in the political process is pretty cool. And what really got me is talking to a lot of the younger congressmen dudes that are like really trying to change things and everything. They're trying to shake up the old guard. You know, "Out with the old, in with the new" that's my theory.

DF: Well, I loved your performance of "Back in the Game," first, it's such a great song but second, I think it's got a message that really fits right now, but one interesting thing -- and you kind of touched on it just now -- is the divisiveness we've kind of seen the last several presidential cycles. But the other thing that's come up is the unapproved use of songs at campaign events to where several bands have come out and demanded that their songs not be used. Since you jumped into the political arena this week, I wondered what your thoughts were on that and also it does seem that most of the complaints come against the GOP, and that a lot of the artists allow their music to be played by the more liberal persuasion.

BLADES: Well, I think a lot of the guys feel real strongly about that sometimes. And you know what, a musician has every right to say, "I believe in this, I believe in that," cause it's the American way to say what you believe. That's what we're all about. You know, some guy writes a song and it's like, "Hey, this person is using my song and I don't agree with that" and stuff like that -- then hey, man, tell them, (but) don't pull the song. It seems like it's always shaded against the Republicans -- you know, I have a theory that it's just kind of one of those deals where they get the rotten end of the stick all the time. And I think it really pisses people off when there's actually Republicans that are looser, it like breaks up the stereotype of what people think Republicans can be. Like everybody's slagging on Clint Eastwood for getting up there and saying something. It's like, dude, I thought it was awesome. I thought it was loose. I thought it was totally awesome. The guy said what he wanted to say. And the guy would go somewhere and just when you think it was going off the deep end, he'd come back with a big zinger, man. It seems like in the conservative world, they're not allowed to sort of do that. I mean it would be OK if it was Harry Belafonte or something like that. But it's like, "You can't do that!" It's like, "You can't have rock 'n' roll, you can only have country music!" Stuff like that. Here's the deal, man, everybody at that place was trying to pin you down and everything like that. Man, I told them, "Look, dude, I'm a registered American, OK?" And what's with all the hating anyway? What's with all the haters? Who taught these people to hate so? Like, who taught them to hate? I mean, the beauty about us is like, I'll listen to your idea if you're on the other side of the persuasion, and I'll listen to that, and if it makes sense to me, I'm in. And that's kind of where I'm at. But it seems like you get shut down if you're on one side. The only way to be free in your ideas is if you're on the far other side. That doesn't get me, I just don't understand the hate. That's what I don't understand. Who taught these people to hate so? Enough of this. Enough of all this stuff. We're all Americans, man, let's just all pull together and do what's best for this country. Let's get those 23 million people that are out of work, let's get 'em working again, that's what I say. And all the other stuff? I think all that stuff is just stuff, and it's all just chatter. Let's get the folks working again, that's kind of my theory on the whole thing. And to tell you the truth, I don't care where the ideas come from, man. I don't care if it comes from Bill Clinton, I don't care if it comes from Obama, I don't care if it comes from Mitt Romney. Let's just get it done. You know, that's where I'm at. (laughs)

DF: Well, you're preaching to the choir ...

BLADES: Yeah, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, it doesn't matter to me, let's just get it done. Get 'er done. That's my take on the whole thing. And down there, I was seeing a lot of the craziness that goes on. You know, I think that these people have just trained everyone ... I just don't understand the hate, that's what gets me, man. It's not in my DNA. It's not in my makeup, spewing vitriol and just utter hatred. I saw it a little bit from people online when I did my song "Back in the Game." I'm like, "Really, people? Really?"

DF: I noticed that on Facebook, that you were asking, "What's with all the hate?"

BLADES: Yeah, I'm like, "Really, people? You try to shut me down?" Anybody that doesn't, if they didn't approve ... well, I didn't even say anything, I just went up there and played my song. (laughs) You know, I didn't spout some political ideology -- I just went up and played a tune. But ... "Really, people? Who taught you to hate?" It's sad, and you know what, that's going to stop because Americans inside are good people.

DF: Right. Well, they should take you out on the stump for the next couple months!

BLADES: Just what I need! (laughs)

DF: You didn't even need a teleprompter!

BLADES: (laughs) Let's get back to the music, man. Sorry we got off on a zag. Let's forget it all happened and get back to what's important. (laughs)

DF: Well, I was going to ask about "Back in the Game" again because that's such a great song and the video especially also, you know with the theme honoring the military and the troops, as the father of a daughter and son-in-law in the Marines, I really appreciate that ...

BLADES: Well you know what? That telegram that's in the video there is actually the telegram that my mother got informing her that her first husband was killed in the Battle of the Bulge, and I still have that, it's up on the wall in my studio. And those are his medals. The medals that are in the video are his medals ... and he's sort of a war hero, got that Silver Star and everything, and a Purple Heart. And so I honor the military for their steadfastness and their defense of our country. I felt like, OK, I've got a solo record, I can do what I want to do on this one, and so I made a mini-war movie, "Saving Private Blades." That's actually my son in the video that gets shot.

DF: Oh, is that Colin?

BLADES: Yeah, that's Colin, my youngest son, so there you go.

DF: Yeah, that was really cool. It kind of ties right into the local show that you will be doing here in Utah which is a benefit concert for Operation Rebound, which I'm not sure you're aware of this this far in advance, but it's a group that helps disabled solders stay active in athletic activities -- but that show is actually here in Utah on Sept. 11 ...

BLADES: I love it! Well, I've got to tell you, Night Ranger is honored to be playing this event, and we're honored to be with you guys, and we're honored to be there on the anniversary of September 11th, and believe me, we're going to be rocking in America with all you people out there, that's for sure.

DF: I know that you're an extremely busy guy with both Night Ranger and you having pretty new albums out, and I'd also be remiss if I didn't get an update from you on the next Shaw/Blades project before we're done here, but where do find the time to write so much? Is it just something that flows out of you all the time or do you really have to buckle down and make an effort? How does that work for you?

BLADES: You know, it's kind of something I've done all my adult life -- I think it's kind of in my DNA makeup at this stage of the game. There's just times of year where my brain just starts getting creative, you know what I mean? And the next thing you know, there's songs coming out. So Night Ranger has a live acoustic DVD coming out on Oct. 22, called "24 Strings and a Drummer," and it has a companion CD with it. So we have that release coming out. And Night Ranger is going to be on this weekend, too bad your thing's not going to be in the paper (yet), but this weekend on "The Bachelor Pad," I think it's coming out on the TV show on ABC on Labor Day. We're on the 3rd, on Monday night. And then two weeks later we're going to be on another show that's a very big show and I can't tell you about it, but it's going to be coming out in two weeks after that.

DF: So I'll have to figure out what that is, huh?

BLADES: Yeah, yeah on the premiere of that show. So there's a lot of stuff going on for Night Ranger. We keep going. And of course Shaw/Blades, Tommy and I are about three-quarters of the way through a new Shaw/Blades record, and we're excited about that. You know, it's just the way I am. I love to write, I love to create. You know, we (Night Ranger) had a new album out last year, "Somewhere in California." That's just who we are. We just keep doing it.

DF: Whenever I talk to Tommy (Shaw), I always try to get some of the new songs you've been considering working on -- how's that selection process going for you?

BLADES: It's going really good. We've got some surprises that will blow some people's minds.

DF: He told me about one song probably a year, year and a half ago, and I haven't said anything about it, but I noticed you mentioned it in a recent interview -- "Going to California"?

BLADES: Yeah, yeah, Tommy sings the hell out of that, man! That's a good story. You know what I mean? And we're doing "Tiny Dancer," too. We did a killer version of that.

Brad Gillis and Jack Blades perform in Wendover, Nev., in 2008. (Doug Fox)

DF: Yeah, I actually talked to you about that -- I last interviewed you four years ago, that's how long you've been working on this record, I probably don't have to tell you that!

BLADES: Isn't that funny, it just seems like it's been four days ago.

DF: I know, it just goes and goes ... but with yours and Tommy's mutual connection to the "Madman Across the Water" album, it just seemed natural that you had to do something off of there. I'm glad you did "Tiny Dancer."

BLADES: Of course.

DF: One of the magical things about Shaw/Blades is how your voices blend so perfectly, I've always wondered, how do you guys end up deciding who's going to sing what part?

BLADES: You know, it just happens. I've been fortunate with Kelly Keagy and me, and everything -- every band I've ever been in has had two vocalists, you know what I mean? And it just happens that way. Like with Night Ranger, it just happens like, "You sing this." "No, you sing this." It's like whoever's voice fits better. It was the same thing with Damn Yankees, with Tommy Shaw and me, and the same thing with us. You know, when he brings a song in or I bring a song in or something like that, it's like "Dude!" Like Tom, he'll kill this one and I'll kill that one. You know, our voices just fit certain things. We look at each other and encourage each other. "No, you do it." "No, you try it." "Dude, you've got it." It's like, "Oh, cool." And everybody, it's always that situation, with Kelly and I, it's just that situation where we go, "Yeah, you got it." It's pretty obvious what works for one person and what works for another one. I've been very fortunate, all my musical career there's been like two lead singers every time I'm in a band.

DF: Hey, since you have those two pretty new albums out, both your solo and the Night Ranger one, I wanted to get your thoughts on the current state of radio. I know a lot of bands from your era are in the same boat where radio stations still play all the old hits but when it comes to your new music, it seems almost impossible to get that on the radio, at least for very long. Have you had to temper your expectations or change your approach at all when it comes to your expected impact when you release new material?

BLADES: Yeah, you know what? We don't have any expectations when we release new material. The reason we keep creating is because we all have a theory, especially the boys in Night Ranger and myself. We have a theory that when you stop creating, that's when you start dying inside. So we're just going to keep writing songs and creating it, and fortunately we have a great record label in Frontiers Records that's totally behind us all the time and just encourages us. "Any new material? What have you got? Come on, let's do a new record. Let's do new material. Let's do this, let's do that!" And so we're so fortunate to have that partnership with them that they give us an outlet to keep creating because I think that's the key to anything -- I don't care if you're an artist, I don't care if you're a painter, I don't care if you're a writer of books. I don't care what you are. You know, when you stop creating, I think that's when you start sort of shriveling up and dying inside, so we're just going to keep coming up with stuff.

Night Ranger will release a new CD/DVD live acoustic package on Oct. 22.

 DF: I also wanted to ask you what you thought of the "Rock of Ages" movie because I remember you played one of the lead roles in the Vegas production of that one time, didn't you?

BLADES: Yeah, yeah, I played what Alec Baldwin played in the movie, Dennis the club owner, in the Vegas one of it back in 2006. I loved it, I thought it was really fun. I thought Tom Cruise did a really good job playing a rock star. You know, I thought it was really kind of cool. You know, I mean, it was fun. I loved the fact that the whole movie started off with the first song, bam -- "Sister Christian!" God love ya! It was supposed to have another one, "High Enough," 'cause "High Enough" is in the Broadway musical, but for some reason something happened and that didn't end up in the movie, which was unfortunate because I thought in that part of the movie it could have really used it.

DF: I was just wondering when we're going to finally see the Night Ranger, Styx, Ted Nugent tour?

BLADES: Yeah, I'm wondering that same thing, man, "When is that going to happen?" Night Ranger, Styx, Nugent, Damn Yankees, right? You'd get it all.

DF: And Shaw/Blades.

BLADES: Yeah, and Shaw/Blades. Shaw/Blades can open it -- you know, we could do it all, bro! We could be like our own self-contained tour, wouldn't you love that?

DF: Yeah, that's the tour I've been waiting for, for five years or more.

BLADES: That would be awesome, man! That would be absolutely awesome!

DF: Yeah, because when it comes to my Jack Blades history of live performances, I have seen you in Night Ranger, Damn Yankees and even Rubicon, but the only thing I'm missing is Shaw/Blades, so I've got to get that crossed off my list.

BLADES: That is so much fun. Bro, it's so much fun. I mean we just, like, sit there bagging on each other and playing acoustic guitars and singing songs -- we have so much fun when we do it. Tommy is the greatest guy and such a dear, dear friend, too.

DF: That's excellent. Is there anything else you'd like to add that we haven't talked about?

BLADES: No. Night Ranger is pumped up, and like I said, we're extremely honored to be playing on September 11th and being with our friends in Utah. I mean, I love it. I absolutely love it. So please, spread the love and spread the word, and we're looking forward to seeing everybody there because I know that every time we come and play in Salt Lake and thereabouts, we have a good crowd and the crowd loves Night Ranger. And I want everybody to know that Night Ranger loves Salt Lake City, and that's the most important thing, man. Keep the love going.

DF: Thanks so much for your time.

BLADES: My pleasure and we'll see you, gosh, it's just like a few days, a couple weeks, right? (laughs)

DF: Week and a half, something like that.

BLADES: There you go. OK, bro.

DF: All right, take care.